Ok. Birthers would you like a little barbeque sauce with your crow.
For months - years even - you have called for the president to come clean about his birth certificate.
He has finally done so - and I still think he should not have.
But... where is the fairness? Where is the admission of being wrong? Where is the being honeest and "coming clean" that you called for.
Remember that book that was to be released that was going to blow this thing out of the water and be a book that finally exposed the president ... well i guess it is still being released..
Below is a press release about it.
But come on birthers .... lets have a little transparency.....
Let me introduce you to Jerome Corsi.
This week he released a new book that the publisher says will be a bestseller "of historic proportions."
The title is "Where's the Birth Certificate?" -- yes, really.
Corsi's work is a greatest-hits reel of delusions, ranging from 9/11 conspiracies to claiming that there is an infinite supply of oil in the Earth's core. In 2008, he published a book about Barack Obama claiming, among other things, that he (a) is a secret Muslim; (b) is secretly anti-military; (c) secretly dealt drugs; and (d) secretly supported terrorist actions when he was eight years old. So many secrets!
FactCheck.org called Corsi's work "a mishmash of unsupported conjecture, half-truths, logical fallacies and outright falsehoods."
There's really no way to make this stuff completely go away. The only thing we can do is laugh at it -- and make sure as many other people as possible are in on the joke.
Why do u want the birthers to have transparency when this administration hasen't had any from its start.
ReplyDeletehttp://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-05-14/news/ct-met-blagojevich-trial-scorecard-20110514_1_blagojevich-trial-scorecard-doug-scofield-john-wyma
ReplyDeleteYou keep harping on that Birth Certificate - I'd rather keep up on O's cronies!
I never did quite figure out whether O had a part in the proposed "sale" of his Senate seat - I think JJ Jr. did - we will have to see if any of that comes out on the re-trial!
I think the best things are swept under the rug (that big old lump that no one notices) not the diversions like his Birth Certificate!
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af276/noonie25/beating-a-dead-horse.gif
ReplyDeleteOK - I visit once a week to see how it's going. Hmmmmm, confrontation with fact.....distraction! Beating a dead horse? Puh-leeze. GOPs were beating this dead horse for months.
ReplyDeleteHere is another cronie:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/17/restaurants-cafes-pelosis-district-eat-health-care-law-waivers/
Pelosi was just so adamant that the American people needed Obamacare, and now look how many waivers have been given out. Disgusting!
ReplyDeleteIt is exactly what I said would happen.
ReplyDeleteI said releasing it would make no difference to the birthers when they were proven wrong....
this is why i think it was a mistake for him to release it.
Here is an interesting article about birth certificates for other presidents.
ReplyDeletehttp://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/28/search-for-u-s-presidents-birth-certificates-yields-mixed-results/
"It is exactly what I said would happen.
ReplyDeleteI said releasing it would make no difference to the birthers when they were proven wrong...."
You were exactly WRONG! The only person still talking about it is YOU! The only question "birthers" have is why it took so long. get over yourself.
^^^^ What they said!^^^^
ReplyDeleteThe next President of the United States
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHomZF3JGBg&feature=player_embedded#at=164
A strong conservative black man. Let's see how those race baiters on the left like this one! After all, the only reason we dislike Obama's socialist policies is because he's black don't ya know!
HERMAN CAIN 2012!
That could get interesting. )
ReplyDeleteA well thought out, well spoken conservative in the White House who actually has real world experience?
ReplyDeleteYes please!
How well you think Mr. Cain will be received by the Mainstream Media? ha.
ReplyDeleteWell, Fox's Chris Wallace lobbed him a softball about right of return. His response? "In what respect Chris?"
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thinkprogress.org/2011/05/22/herman-cain-right-of-return/
Now, I understand how the average person might not understand what 'right of return' means, but if you're going to go on national TV and accuse the President of throwing Israel under the bus, you damn sure ought to familiarize yourself with the issues.
Whether you like or dislike Obama, you have to admit that had he been asked that question, he would have an answer. You might not like his answer, but he would have one.
At the very least, he would have understood the question.
"I read them all, Katie"
ReplyDeleteOff topic, but...
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who was in Joplin with his family yesterday. They left just before it hit, and are praising God for sparing them. This is fine, I'm glad they are okay, and am thanking God for that; but, what do we tell the 116 people who were not spared? What do we tell the countless others who were injured, or have no place to live in the tornadoes aftermath? Do we say sorry, God chose to save pothers, but you received Gods wrath. I think it is dangerous theology, and when we subscribe to it we must really ask ourselves, why does God bless who he blesses, and curse who he curses. Are some more faithful, more deserving? Why does it appear that often the righteous suffer while the evil prosper? Just wondering what your take is?
Whether you like or dislike Obama, you have to admit that had he been asked that question, he would have an answer.
ReplyDeleteAn answer right off his tele-promter no doubt!
You could go back and find plenty of things Obama has said that would equal anything you want to compare tit for tat!
But, the media darling and first Black President can't be made to look bad!
Cain will do just fine - he will probably "FIRE" all the deadwood in Government!
"Whether you like or dislike Obama, you have to admit that had he been asked that question, he would have an answer. You might not like his answer, but he would have one."
ReplyDeleteObama is a brilliant man when his teleprompter is working. Here is a clip of him trying to talk without it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of61E1FesPU
Obama was tutored and groomed for public office his entire adult life, whereas Herman Cain has never served in public office. Instead, he has been a very well respected businessman in the private sector. You look down on him for not being a career politician, and I look up to him for the same reason. I did not know what the phrase right of return meant, and I'm sure you didn't either until the leftist media tried to shame Cain about it.
Obama is a brilliant man when his teleprompter is working.
ReplyDelete>>>
ok that line made me laugh.
I think it is dangerous theology, and when we subscribe to it we must really ask ourselves, why does God bless who he blesses, and curse who he curses. Are some more faithful, more deserving? Why does it appear that often the righteous suffer while the evil prosper?
ReplyDelete>>>>
that is the age old question that has haunted humanity for thousands of years.
so ... with that in mind.
there is a bible verse that says "the rain falls on the just and the unjust."
I agree it is dangerous theology, but i think it is ok to thank god for being spared ... but we should also thank god when we are not spared..
i really think things just happen, tornadoes, wrecks, whatever .. you are just lucky or not .. i dont think it is a sign of whether god approves of you or not.
the world is a dangerous place. i think the only thing we can tell people is that god loves them and that their being harmed is not a curse from God .. it is just that bad stuff happens.
there is no sense to it ...
i think this is safer theology :)
and more biblical
"we must really ask ourselves, why does God bless who he blesses, and curse who he curses. Are some more faithful, more deserving? Why does it appear that often the righteous suffer while the evil prosper?"
ReplyDeleteIt all makes perfect sense when you look at it from the standpoint that tornadoes are a natural thing, and god is a myth. When it comes down to it, you either believe that God didn't cause the tornado because god is not real, OR you believe that god made the tornado, and sent it to kill all those people who died, for whatever reason.
I have seen far too many good christian people struck down early in life, and far too many scumbags prosper and grow old to believe it's anything but a myth of epic proportion.
It all makes perfect sense when you look at it from the standpoint that tornadoes are a natural thing, and god is a myth.
ReplyDeleteHe's back!
or is it he's still here?
What if God put those mechanics and physical properties in place? Just like your DNA that made you a human instead of a Donkey!
or part Donkey part Human! (Well at least it doesn't show on the outside!:)
So, what if God can't go against his own creation?
Without severly disrupting the whole thing!
But, I do believe God has a purpose for every person!
And
It was his creation that gave you life!
No promises that everything will go your way, that you will live a long life, or you won't be harmed physically or mentally, even killed!
His promise to those who Love HIM - He will be with them even until the end of time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4n6S6dam60&feature=player_embedded#at=379
ReplyDeleteHerman Cain's response to the "right of return" question. And guess what? He admits that he was caught off guard. He didn't know what it meant, and has since studied it. THAT is the kind of leader we need. An HONEST one. Not a career politician who knows how to lie his way out of similiar situations. And, he doesn't use a teleprompter to give speeches.
And oh yeah, to the poster at 3:03,
ReplyDeleteSince you don't like Herman Cain, you are obviously a stone cold RACIST!
Man, I couldn't wait to start saying that. hahaha
Not only are you a racist, but you are TWICE as much of a racist for not liking Herman Cain as I am for not liking Obama, because Cain has twice as much black in him than Obama does!
Sounds ridiculous when the shoe's on the other foot, doesn't it?!
This is going to be a great campaign season.
JJ, thanks for admitting that it is dangerous theology. I think it is natural to thank God when you perceive that God's providence has saved you; in reality however, I agree with you. Stuff just happens.
ReplyDeleteStuff just happens? You really want to have your cake and eat it too, don't you. Either god exists and he creates (or at the very least ALLOWS them to happen) the tornadoes, volcanoes, hurricanes, diseases, plagues, famines, etc, OR he doesn't exist, and stuff just happens. You can't have it both ways.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all... God isn't a "he." 2nd, I believe God is Omniscient and Omnipotent, the creator of all that is, seen and unseen. And yet, God has chosen to limit God's power, to keep hands off, and allow free will. We could live in a perfect utopia, acting as robots in perfect line with God's will, but then what kind of life would that be? What if Eve had obeyed God and never ate the apple? What if God said to Eve, "Well done. Because you have obeyed my commandments you will never have to work or toil for anything. You will live off the fat of the land, and all of creation will serve you. You will never experience tears of pain or sadness, nor will the angle of death ever visit you. this shall be true for you and all of your descendents." What kind of life would that be? God could have prevented the tornado. Of course he could have. But he did not send it.
ReplyDelete"I believe God is Omniscient and Omnipotent, the creator of all that is, seen and unseen. And yet, God has chosen to limit God's power, to keep hands off, and allow free will."
ReplyDeleteHave you look up omniscient and omnipotent lately? If he was those things, and then chose to limit himself to not be those things (?), then he isn't those things anymore, and your whole sentence doesn't make any sense.
"We could live in a perfect utopia, acting as robots in perfect line with God's will, but then what kind of life would that be?"
A pretty great one if you ask me!
"What if Eve had obeyed God and never ate the apple? What if God said to Eve, "Well done. Because you have obeyed my commandments you will never have to work or toil for anything. You will live off the fat of the land, and all of creation will serve you. You will never experience tears of pain or sadness, nor will the angle of death ever visit you. this shall be true for you and all of your descendents." What kind of life would that be?"
in one word: AWE (wait for it) SOME!
"God could have prevented the tornado. Of course he could have. But he did not send it."
Okay, so I'm sitting on the edge of a large fountain, and a baby falls in. I sit there and watch the baby drown a foot from me. I could stop the baby from drowning, but I choose to give the baby free will. How big of an A-hole am I? Pretty big. Why would you worship a being like that? Fear? Because you have been told all your life that if you don't, then you will go to hell for eternity? Why would you worship someone who FORCES you to worship them? Why would a being force it's subjects to worship it in the first place? Does god suffer from low self esteem? Start asking yourself the hard questions.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" -Epicurus
It certainly is a conundrum. I believe God has limited God's self, and consequently is not able to prevent bad things from happening. God could, but how would God decide? Who would be worthy? Only those who prayed the right prayer, only the "faithful?" Only those who have the right number of people praying for them? Maybe those who do good works? God would have to prevent all tragedy, or none. Were God to prevent all, we would never be able to enjoy life. You might think it would be AWESOME, but trust me, it would not. We cannot know joy if there is no sorrow to compare it to. No love without hate, not comfort without affliction....
ReplyDeleteThe alleged hard questions are not hard questions at all. They seem more like desperate attempts to justify unbelief.
ReplyDeleteGod does not require or force people to worship, or to even believe.
Your attacks on God are a direct contradiction of your argument.
Why does God allow you to say bad things about him/her/it? God does not vaporize you because you insult God ... does that mean God doesn't exist? How illogical is that?
What I dont understand is why it is so important for those who do not believe to attack the beliefs of those that do?
ReplyDeleteMaybe you should ask yourself a hard question?
Why do you need to question the faith of others? Are you so unsure of your unbelief that you have to make yourself feel better by belittling those that believe?
Are you so uncertain that there is no god that you have to try to disprove god on blogs?
I just dont see why you waste your time with it. You know, i am not a vegetarian. I dont dislike vegetarians but i think they are being silly in general.
But I have no need to convince them. I dont have a need to go to vegetarian websites and tell them how wrong they are and insult them, or to even make them try to think the way i do.
I am secure within myself enough to eat meat without caring that there are people who dislike the practice. I dont even care that there are people who think I am doing wrong by eating meat. I dont believe in it (vegetarianism) so i dont waste my time worrying about it.
I just think maybe you should ask yourself that hard question.
Why do you need to attack God? Why do you need to "disprove" God?
Are you so insecure that you need to make yourself feel better by attacking others? If there is no god, and you truly do not believe, why dont you just ignore it as the silliness you think it is. Just seems like that would make more sense to me..
I really have a hard time with "atheists," I could understand not believing in a Christian God, or that Jesus is God, or in any other faith expressions understanding of how God reveals God's self to us. What I don't understand is how they can so easily dismiss the idea that there is some creator who is the author of creation. No chance of it at all? Come on....
ReplyDelete11:24 AM
ReplyDelete"God does not require or force people to worship, or to even believe."
I realize that is true, because there is no god, but for argument's sake, let's pretend there is. And in christian beliefs if you don't worship him, or don't believe in him, don't follow his rules, then you are damned to hell for eternity. Sounds like he is forcing you to choose between worship/belief and eternal torment. Not much of a choice is it? Why not just live and let live? Why not just "Okay,. you don't want to worship me, that's cool, but no heaven for you after you die, you can just die and cease to exist."
(pssst. That's what really happens anyway)
"Why does God allow you to say bad things about him/her/it? God does not vaporize you because you insult God ... does that mean God doesn't exist? How illogical is that?"
YES! Now you get it. And it's perfectly logical. Perfectly rational. God doesn't strike me down for talking bad about him because he/she/it does not exist. That is the only explanation needed. Once you come to grips with that, all the answers fall into place. try to Imagine it!
11:48, Good question, and I like your vegetarian argument, but the difference is that vegetarians don't number in the millions and make up 90% of the population. AND, vegetarians don't come on here and talk about how vegetables saved them from a tornado while letting other people die in it. And no, Vegetables don't create tornadoes any more than gods do.
12:32, I don't know how life on Earth was created. I don't pretend to know. But I am quite certain it wasn't by a supernatural being who violates all the laws of physics and science. I would even go so far as to say that if I had to choose between a supernatural god and aliens from another planet, I would have to go with the aliens. Simply because it is a theory that is scientifically possible, and doesn't rely on magic and the supernatural. Not saying I believe that, just that it makes more sense than god.
2:26 poster please do everybody on here a favor and on your death bed promise all of us beleivers that you will not call on the name of GOD to save your sorry behind.
ReplyDelete2:26 poster please do everybody on here a favor and on your death bed promise all of us beleivers that you will not call on the name of GOD to save your sorry behind.
ReplyDeleteBut I am quite certain it wasn't by a supernatural being who violates all the laws of physics and science.
ReplyDeleteIf you read some of those Christian and even Secular Scientist?
They agree that if there was only one minute change in the molecular structure of the key ingredients/elements in the Universe. Mainly Hydrogen, Oxygen and Carbon? You or I wouldn't be here to post on this blog.
That doesn't mean there wouldn't or couldn't be a Universe! Just that it couldn't sustain life as we know it!
You really need to keep up on Science!
There's no need to repeat yourself. I definitely will not be calling on any mythical beings to help me on my deathbed.
ReplyDeleteThe old saying that there are no Atheists in foxholes is a lie. There are a lot of them serving our country right now, and many who have served in the past.
http://ffrf.org/outreach/atheists-in-foxholes/
christian scientists?
ReplyDeletelol
that's an oxymoron.
True scientist take facts and draw a conclusion from them. Christian scientists take a conclusion and try to make the facts work to fit it. That is not science.
"You really need to keep up on Science!"
ReplyDeleteplease link to the article where science proves the existence of god.
Thank you in advance.
http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/audio/newevidence.htm
ReplyDeleteFrom that page:
ReplyDelete"Why Big Bang = Jesus Christ"
Really? Jesus? Why not GOD? Jesus was born on Earth.
"I want to take you back to almost two years ago, April 23, 1992. On that day, a discovery was announced that, in the words of the British physicist Steven Hawking, “…is the discovery of the century, if not of all time.” This is remarkable because Steven Hawking has a reputation for understatement."
Wow, that Stephen Hawking guy is a genius, so maybe you're on to something there. If he said that back in 1992, then he must have.... oh wait a second... here's what he said in 2010:
"God did not create the universe, world-famous physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book that aims to banish a divine creator from physics.
Hawking says in his book "The Grand Design" that, given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing," according to an excerpt published Thursday in The Times of London.
"Spontaneous creation is the reason why there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," he writes in the excerpt."
Here's the CNN article. http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-02/world/hawking.god.universe_1_universe-abrahamic-faiths-divine-creator?_s=PM:WORLD
I did read way more of that link than I should have, but basically it says they discovered a new kind of matter. So automatically, christians try to make that equal a creator. That proves nothing. Don't you think every scientist on Earth, not to mention every preacher and news organization on Earth, would be all over the news that proof of god had been discovered? Hell, I would not be an atheist if PROOF of god had been discovered. You see, I am willing to change my conclusions to meet the facts I am given. Christians change the facts to match the conclusion they are given.
Hawking died a miserable death. Alone and with cancer. And without hope.
ReplyDeleteWhat did his atheism, and his attempt to destroy the faith of others, get him?
Using science to prove or disprove God is silly. Its like trying to measure temperature with a yardstick. Science is not the final authority.
God is spirit. You cannot see God, therefore science has nothing to say on the issue.
I still think you protest too much.
If you were really secure in your atheism you would not be bothered to come to an obscure blog and harass people because God is mentioned in some posts.
You really should look at why you do this.
Maybe you're trying to convince yourself more than others?
Hell, I would not be an atheist if PROOF of god had been discovered. You see, I am willing to change my conclusions to meet the facts I am given. Christians change the facts to match the conclusion they are given.
ReplyDelete>>>
There is plenty of circumstantial evidence. In civil court there is no need for absolute proof, only a proponderence of evidence. A likely-hood.
You have been shown plenty of circumstantial evidence, and you dismiss it constantly.
Even in criminal court, people are convicted of crimes with no witnesses ...
Since the beginning of recorded history, and before, most people have a "need" for God. Its like a "need" for water and food. That need is very strong evidence.
Also, billions of people over many centuries in many different cultures, have had very similar subjective experiences of God.
The ancient holy books have been preserved remarkably well. Yet you dismiss them.
I have offered to meet with you personally and discuss issues.
You refuse.
So ... would you really believe if you had evidence?
Are you really willing to be open minded?
There is evidence.
The notion that christians blindly believe some set of old tales without thinking and without evidence is ridiculous. There is plenty of evidence but you cant see God. and when you are ready, God will be there for you.
You cant see the wind either.
But you see its effects.
You didn't read far enough on that article:
ReplyDelete----------
Of all world religions, only Judeo-Christian theology says Time has a beginning
Why? Because if you were to open up the Holy books of the religions of the world, only one of them would describe God as a being that creates the universe independent of time, space, matter and energy.
The other Holy books describe God as creating within time. The Bible states that God creates independent of time. That's the difference.
Some verses that you might be familiar with: The first verse which states, “In the Beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth…” The Hebrew words for heavens and Earth literally refer to the entire physical cosmos of matter, energy space and time. The universe.
Hebrews 11:3 makes it more specific stating, “The universe that we detect was made from that which we cannot detect.” We can make detections within matter, energy, length, width, height and time, but not beyond.
Eight places in the Bible tell us that God created time. I'll give you two examples: 2 Timothy 1:9 which states, “The Grace of God that we now experience was put into effect before the beginning of time” and Titus 1:2 which states, “The hope that we have in Jesus Christ was given to us before the beginning of time.”
The three things that the Apostle Paul was saying in those two verses were that time is beginning, that God created the time dimension of our universe and, most importantly, that God has the capacity to operate through cause and effect before the time dimension of our universe even exists.
Your friendly neighborhood physicist will tell you that time is defined as that dimension or realm in which cause and effect phenomena take place. What the Apostle Paul is telling us in these two places and in the six other portions of Scripture, is that we are confined to a single dimension of time.
In fact it's worse than that. We're confined to half of a line of time. Time, for us, is a line that goes forward only. Have you ever noticed that you cannot stop or reverse the arrow of time? No matter what you do, it just keeps going forward in one direction.
Any entity confined to half of the line of time, must have a beginning and must be created. I can walk home tonight, and that's it. It's the simplest, most rigorous proof of the existence of God.
We're confined, and the entire universe is confined to half of the line of time. Therefore, the universe must be created and we must be created. But God is not so confined.
When I present this evidence to atheists, their most frequent response is the same one I got from both of my sons when they were three years of age. It's, “If God created us, then who created God?”
God: Not Confined by Time
My sons and the atheists are assuming that God is confined to time in the same way that we are. But the Bible and the equations of General Relativity tell us that the entity that brought the universe into existence is not confined in time like we are, or the way that the universe is.
God can move and operate in at least two dimensions of time. In two dimensions of time, time becomes a plane, like a sheet of paper, length and width. In a plane, you can have as many lines as you want and as many directions as you want.
It would be possible for God to dwell on a time line running through a sheet of paper that's infinitely long, and that never crosses or touches the timeline of our universe. As such, God would have no beginning, no end and he would not be created. Sound familiar?
Why the God of Modern Physics Matches the God of the Bible
Both John Chapter One and Colossians Chapter One make that claim about God; He has no beginning, no end and He is not created. The Bible is the only Holy book that makes that statement about God.
As far as I know, Stephen Hawking is alive...
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous 9:28am- Actually, the Hebrew word you are translating as "In THE beginning," is Bereshit. Correctly translated it reads - "In A beginning..." So, according to the Bible, there were many, or at least more than one beginnings. the next two lines are - "when God began creating the heavens and the earth, the earth WAS a formless void..." Note, the earth WAS... seems as though it was preexistent to God's beginning of creation... The Bible says so. Not looking to stir up trouble, just looking to point out that there are many ways of looking at, and understanding scripture.
ReplyDeleteThe Moon and the Morning Star
ReplyDeleteOnly Judeo-Christians have creation stories? What about this one from the Wichita Indians...
"In the beginning there were neither sun, nor stars, nor anything else that we know today. For a long time, the only man was Man-never-known-on-Earth. He created everything. When he created the world, he created land and water, but they were not separate, and still everything was dark. Then Man-never-known-on-Earth created a man who was known as Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light and a woman named Bright-Shining-Woman. Everything that they needed, they dreamed of, and it was there when they awoke. Bright-Shining-Woman received an ear of corn and knew that it would be the food of generations to come.
Still there was nothing but darkness. Without knowing why, Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light began a journey to the east, moving slowly through the darkness. He came to a stranger who told him that there would be many villages and many people in the future, and that it would be up to Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light to teach them. As they talked, a voice from the east called to this stranger to shoot a black-and-white deer that would follow a white deer and a black deer out of a stream nearby. Four times the stranger had to tell the impatient voice that he was preparing a bow and arrow to shoot the deer. Finally he emerged from his lodge as the deer jumped out of the water, and he shot the black-and-white deer. This meant that the earth would turn, that the stars would move, and that there would be day and night. The stranger, whose name was Star-that-is-always-moving, went to follow the deer that he had wounded, but Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light stayed by the shore. From where the voice had spoken, he now saw the sun rise for the first time. He returned to his home, but he traveled much faster now that it was light. That night he saw three stars in the sky, with another star nearby, and he concluded that they were the three deer and the man who followed them.
After there was light, villages and people multiplied, as the stranger had predicted. Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light and Bright-Shining-Woman went from village to village, teaching the people. Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light taught the men about bows and arrows, and he taught them to play the ball game and the shinny game.
Bright-Shining-Woman taught the women about corn, how to grow corn, how to feed the people with corn, how to offer some corn at each meal to Man-never-known-on-Earth, how take four kernels and rub them on their child as a prayer. She also taught them the double-ball game. She told them that, after she was gone, they could look at her face to tell when their monthly bleeding should occur, and by counting her appearances they could keep track of when their children would be born. Then she left them, and that night the first moon came up, because she was the Moon.
Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light taught the men that they must offer some of the game that they caught to the moon and to the stars and to the other supernatural beings. He told them that he would leave them, but that they would see him sometimes in early morning. When they saw him, they were to take their children to drink and bathe in the river, which would give them long life. Then he left them and became the Morning Star."
"Since the beginning of recorded history, and before, most people have a "need" for God. Its like a "need" for water and food. That need is very strong evidence."
ReplyDeleteWhy, then, do I not feel this "Need" you speak of? Why is this the first time I have heard of the "need" at all? I do believe that man has a need to understand the world around him, and his place in it. That is probably the single biggest inspiration for the religious stories. Man has used gods to explain the unexplainable since he started walking upright. Simple things that we now understand were blamed on the gods. The sun was worshipped as a god. The moon was a god. The gods of Olympus lived on the top of the highest mountain because man could not go up there to see them and prove they weren't there. But eventually men scaled the mountains, and guess what.. no gods. Then the gods lived in the clouds, and the same thing happened. Now heaven is usually described as some kind of alternate universe.
Your court analogy does not hold water. I have never heard any evidence that would meet the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" required in criminal court, nor even "by the preponderance of the evidence" used in civil court. And I would definitely never believe anythig based solely on circumstancial evidence. Especially something so important.
I have, however, seen hard scientific evidence to the contrary. The fossil record for example. Carbon dating for another. And every single time an artifact is found that suggests the bible may be historically accurate, such as the shroud of Turin, or the iron tablets found recently, they always turn out to be faked by christians. How righteous is that to try to deceive the world?
But rest assured, if the evidence presented itself, I would believe it. On the other hand, you choose to ignore all the scientific evidence against it and call me irrational. I have never, in my entire life, seen anything that could be classified as supernatural, and I don't suppose I ever will. But if I should, then my beliefs will change in that very instance. I am not tied to my doctrine of skepticism the way you are tied to your doctrine of belief. Proof would undoubtedly change my mind.
And, I am starting to feel bad for hijacking your site with my rationality, so this will be my last post on the subject unless someone asks me specifically to debate something.
You can believe whatever you like, just don't push it as fact, or try to indoctrinate others or discriminate against those who don't believe it, as the city council is doing by praying to jesus before meetings.
"@ Anonymous 9:28am- Actually, the Hebrew word you are translating as "In THE beginning," is Bereshit."
ReplyDeleteDoes a Bereshit in the woods? lol
Okay, now I'm done. I couldn't resist.
Darnit, I didn't even see JJ's post about Stephen Hawking dying a miserable death at the hands of cancer. Last one, I swear to god. (see what I did there?)
ReplyDelete"Hawking died a miserable death. Alone and with cancer. And without hope. What did his atheism, and his attempt to destroy the faith of others, get him?"
Well, if that's true, he has risen from the grave! just like Jesus!.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking
And what will your faith get you when it comes time to die? Will it be peaceful? I hope so, but I have known many christians who died horrible deaths, and it had nothing to do with what they believed. That was a horrible thing to say.
@ godless: I for one thought it a pleasure to engage in this dialog with you. You have been respectful, for the most part, although as you admit, a bit brash, but at least you are informed and asking critical questions. Any Christian who says he/she have never questioned their faith are full of #%*!. It is a little easier for me to believe when I view scripture as myth and allegory. Viewed that way, I can also borrow from other faith traditions, cultures and segments of society as I build my own theology, and find a way of believing that is "right" for me. Heck, I have even been known to quote Stephen Hawking in a sermon. I am moving farther and farther away from identifying myself as Christian. Rather, I say, "I am a follower of the way of Christ." To paraphrase Gandhi, I find myself saying, "I like Christ, it is Christians I don't care for." Sorry you have been so poorly treated. When Christians admit they have no PROOF, and that their faith is based on things not seen, they will no longer need to cling to a Bible that is so contradictory and irrational. God reveals God's self in a multitude of ways. We need to stop trying to reify God; God will not fit into the neat little boxes we have constructed for "him."
ReplyDelete@anonymous 9:28 - "Both John Chapter One and Colossians Chapter One make that claim about God; He has no beginning, no end and He is not created. The Bible is the only Holy book that makes that statement about God."
ReplyDeleteI have a book that says God is a giant preexistent chicken that laid eggs that became the earth, and moon. As far as I know, this is the only book to make that claim. Does that make it true?
I have a Superman comic that says Jor-El sent his only son Kal-El to Earth to be it's savior.
ReplyDeleteDoes that make it true?
The bible was written by man. Not god.
The superman comic is true. Not factually, but metaphorically. It is taping into a collective unconscious, or psyche, and drawing from Jungian archetypes. The fact that so many faiths and cultures across time and space have similar stories leads me to believe there is some "truth" to it.
ReplyDeleteThe bible was written by man. Not god.
ReplyDelete>>>
How is that more rational than claiming God wrote it?
You have no proof. You were not there and do not know anyone who was.
You are making a claim based on wishful thinking, or maybe its just what you have been told all your life and you havent ever questioned it.
Just saying ...its not any different than what you accuse others of...
shall we say hypocrit?
much?
that made no sense. that man wrote the bible is not in dispute.
ReplyDelete@ 2:02 - huh?
ReplyDeleteI can also borrow from other faith traditions, cultures and segments of society as I build my own theology, and find a way of believing that is "right" for me. Heck, I have even been known to quote Stephen Hawking in a sermon. I am moving farther and farther away from identifying myself as Christian. Rather, I say, "I am a follower of the way of Christ."
ReplyDeleteI copied that so you can re-read what you just wrote!
Where does it say that your interpretation makes you a follower of Christ?
That part about borrowing things from other faith traditions?
I think the Bible says no man can serve two masters .........!
Where does what say my interpretation makes me a follower of Christ? The Bible? Not sure it does, but I do know it was not Jesus' intent to start a new religion, or to have people worship and idolize him. He wanted people to change the way they were living. You are correct, you cannot serve two masters. That was one of the primary messages of Jesus. You cannot serve both God and Ceaser, both God and Rome, both God and USA. You must choose whom you choose to serve. I choose to serve under the Lordship of Jesus Christ, whose way I have sworn to follow. What is that way? The way of compassion, justice, peace, mercy, forgiveness....
ReplyDeleteIsn't there a religion page where this cut-n-paste from other website party can continue?
ReplyDeletewell there was a different post that had a lot of this.
ReplyDeleteim pretty busy at the moment
yall carry on
as opposed to the open my bible and retype it all myself for no reason party?
ReplyDeleteWhat web site was most of this cut and pasted from. The only cutting and pasting I did was the ancient creation stories...
ReplyDeletethe world is a dangerous place. i think the only thing we can tell people is that god loves them and that their being harmed is not a curse from God .. it is just that bad stuff happens.
ReplyDeletethere is no sense to it ...
i think this is safer theology :)
and more biblical
From cosmic finger prints: question and answers section about
Why do we need earthquakes?
In response to your question about earthquakes, without earthquakes or plate tectonic activity, nutrients that are essential for life on land would erode off of the continents and accumulate in the oceans. After awhile, life would be impossible on land, though you'd still have life in the oceans.
Thanks to earthquake activity, that stuff in the oceans gets recycled into new continents. We see here on earth precisely the right number and intensity of earthquakes to maintain that recycling, but not to such a degree that it's impossible for us to live in cities.
If it's any comfort to you, the risk of earthquake damage here in Chicago is greater than it is in Los Angeles . But that's only because we have stiffer building codes.
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Now if you probably ask him about Hurricanes and Volcanoes?
I think most scientist agree they are useful tools! (Although they are and can be very destructive!)
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/
ReplyDeleteThat is an interesting site about earthquakes.
there are earthquakes happening all the time.
You know, I don't like Donald Trump very much, but at least his crazy accusations put this BS to an end. We all know it's about racism, not where someone was born. I get so sick of this crap. Here we are, 10%+ unemployment (Yes, I believe the government is skewing the figures), and all they want to talk about is birth certificates and schlongs on Twitter. I'm from SC originally, and this all reminds me of when the black legislators spent 5 years fighting over the song Dixie and the Confederate flag...like blacks in SC don't have any more important issues. It was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of, until this.
ReplyDelete