The city passed the redevelopment district Tuesday night by a 3-2 vote. This creates the possibility of a special development district. Any project will still have to be approved by the commission.
Patrick McDonald, Jay Warren and Jean Snell voted for it, while Mell Kuhn and Dotty Smith voted against it.
This does not create a TIF district, but now the city could vote on one if it were to be presented. Other kinds of financing could also be done here.
I think this is a better way to go about it. This way a project can be evaluated on its own merits.
Some object to the "blight" status. It is a stretch but it does meet the legal requirements.
Did Mell and Dotty say why they voted against it?
ReplyDeleteThey voted against it, I am sure because of the same reason JJ stated. It is a stretch to call it a blighted area at best. Several people were in attendance to discuss the the issue from the non blight side but the quick call to vote nixed that. I see that McDonald says in todays that these people had 40 min of discussion time to interject, but from every other discussion such as this the audience thoughts are held in reserve until they are called to come forth. I guess from now on Patrick wants everyone to interrupt the meeting discussion whenever the feel the need....... Then after it was voted on, he still did not want to hear discussion from the other side. Patrick was the one who ran this time with the campaign slogan that he was going to listen to the people and do what the people wanted. This is the second time I have heard him say he was done listening to people on an issue. On another interesting note..... I think it was Dotty Smith that asked Jay Warren about his relationship with ACI. Jay started to respond and was quickly cut off by Tamara Niles with a prepared and researched reply. Can Mr. Warren not speak for himself?
ReplyDeleteI just don't get why people are against some progress in this town. And always have to be so negative. No Lowes and Bryants still went out of business.
ReplyDeleteIts been discussed for months. The commission does listen. People should get involved earlier in the process. Showing up when its about to get voted on is way to late to start a conversation.
ReplyDeleteThere is just a different philosophy about what is needed.
Some are still against the idea of giving companies incentives to move here. The reality is no company anywhere is going to move three feet with no incentives.
Some also think local businesses - or existing businesses - should be protected from competition.
People do need to get more involved. You can go to a work session and talk to the commission about anything.
Have the City buy the property or let ACI give it to them and take a write off for the appraised value!
ReplyDeleteThe City can then contol their own destiny!
But, if it is deemed as a truly "Blighted"
area?
There MIGHT BE A CASE FOR Eminent Domain!
This vote was railroaded and the mayor played the part of puppet brilliantly.
ReplyDeleteIf a certain (and unnamed) group of investors/speculators want to develop it, then get at it...oh wait, a certain (and unnamed) bank already pissed everybody's money away.
But a brother has to tip his hat, they pulled a good business move. They got a couple of like-minded/inside guys on city commission...and look what happens.
A certain, unnamed bank lost its ass in real estate and getting too big for its britches? Can you say "Deja Voo"?
I am just glad we have some commissioners with vision and foresight, who want to grow the town and have the ... ahem, intestinal fortitude, to stare down the nay sayers and do the right thing.
ReplyDeleteFinally !!!!
some leadership.
Finally !!!!
ReplyDeletesome leadership.
May 19, 2010 11:05 PM
I don't see how you call "Prime land for development" a "Blighted" area!
Seems like a big "lie" in which a small group stand to benefit from Taxpayer dollars!
Why do you call people who bend the truth?
Leaders????
I am glad that some commissioners are working toward the goal of bringing business here. That is the reason they were elected if you recall correctly. It's also the reason the three amigos are no more. And the reason the other two, who are still holding back progress, will be ousted at the soonest opportunity.
ReplyDeleteWhat's up with your pop up ad everytime I come here, can you turn that off?
ReplyDeleteWe obviously have a new ring of 3. This new threesome is definitely agenda driven.
ReplyDeleteFor crying out loud; they spend a hell of a lot more time talking about 20 acres of land outside city limits than the 5000 acres inside city limits. I've been working on the railroad...
We traded amigos for railroaders.
JJ said...
ReplyDelete"There is just a different philosophy about what is needed.
Some are still against the idea of giving companies incentives to move here."
This bogus blighted area stuff involves NO INCENTIVES for businesses.
All this potential TIF does is use future gains in taxes to fund improvements, which increases property value. Plain and simple.
At which point the land becomes worth 20+ times its initial value. Excellent developers move, wouldn't you say? ACI owns the land? The former mayor is a member of ACI? hhhmmmmm
I dont get any popups. You must have a virus. Turn on your popup blocker.
ReplyDeleteI dont have a problem with ACI making a profit off the deal. I dont even see how that is a scandal. They are supposed to bring business to AC and use any profits for future development. They seem to be doing that. So what exactly is the problem?
I agree with the earlier poster about leadership.
My popup blocker blocks a popup every time I come here. Not sure what it is because I've never let it through.
ReplyDeleteMine does too. It doesn't get through, but it bothers me that there's one on this site.
ReplyDelete@10:00
ReplyDeleteWhatever you say, soon-to-be-former commish.
4:19 I will have you know that McDonald has stated repeatedly that work session are not for the public and he has stated many times that he doesn't want to listen to people. So don't you DARE say that people should get involved because some members of this commission are doing everything in their power to keep the people out
ReplyDelete7:21am not everyone shares your view on progress. If there is nothing going on then show all the cards on the table. Stop dealing off the bottom of the deck.
ReplyDeleteThis is our town and if we want to talk at a commission meeting about a subject we should be able.
Call the question is another way of saying we have already decided in our closet meeting.
I remember the Lowe's fiasco, and what led up to Margolius being voted out. It seems more people wanted progress than didn't.
ReplyDeletepopups on here. yes. i didn't know anyone still used those in this world. i am still trying to figure out the pictures of the scantily clad cleavage inviting someone to "play discreetly" or something. haven't clicked on it because it's probably filled with viruses.
ReplyDeleteIt seems more people wanted progress than didn't.
ReplyDeleteDo you mean progress (spin) like a Lowe's and an Appleby's. (Maybe in reality like a home improvement store and one other store.)
Then risk the possibility of losing both Sears stores, maybe some other appliance or tool stores, as well as lumber yards maybe an electrical supplier etc?
Yep that's progress!
Too bad they don't know what real progress IS!
Yeah, it would be a shame if our local businesses had to lower some of their prices to compete with the real world.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it would be a shame if our local businesses had to lower some of their prices to compete with the real world.
ReplyDeleteMay 21, 2010 7:14 AM
If you want to subsidize them with taxpayer dollars like you are going to do with a Lowe's?
They might be able to lower those prices or maybe even carry larger inventories!
What you don't understand is they are already competeing with Lowe's.
You take away the advantage they have as a local business - even on those small purchases that aren't worth the drive to a Lowe's?
They can't compete and will go out of business!
What you can't seem to realize?
Is that the trend to buy too CHEAP!
Is robbing the very value/equity out of our communities and Country!
Then you don't have a choice!
You are FORCED to buy and live CHEAP!
Then you don't have a choice!
ReplyDeleteYou are FORCED to buy and live CHEAP!
Why is that you say?
Because, when the equity is compromised to the point it must be maintained! (There isn't enough money collected to maintain the values through consumption, decent paying jobs, or businesses)
You have to increase exisitng or create new taxes! (That will make you buy cheap!)
Rubbermaid just hired something like 150 workers as temporaries! They might keep 30 as full time!
Too Cheap doesn't stop at the Cash Register!
"Rubbermaid just hired something like 150 workers as temporaries! They might keep 30 as full time!"
ReplyDeleteThat 150 almost covers about 1/2 of the total they've laid off since '03! And you say they might KEEP 1/5 of those???
You'll have to pardon me for not hoisting them 'pon my shoulders..
"If you want to subsidize them with taxpayer dollars like you are going to do with a Lowe's?"
ReplyDeleteAre people still using that argument? Lowe's wasn't going to get anything but land and maybe a tax defferment. No taxpayer money.
"What you don't understand is they are already competeing with Lowe's."
No, they aren't.
I go to Lowe's all the time...love it!
ReplyDelete"What you don't understand is they are already competing with Lowe's."
ReplyDeleteNo, they aren't.
I go to Lowe's all the time...love it!
So which is it?
Are they competing for the same Customer base
and Consumer Dollars or Not?
How many years we gotta dissect this same dead horse. Goodness sakes that horse is cut into chopsticks by now.
ReplyDeleteWhen I said they weren't competing with Lowe's, I meant that there is no competition. Lowe's always gets my business because they don't charge outrageous prices for stuff you can get 40 miles away for way less.
ReplyDeleteguess gas is free.d
ReplyDeleteFunny thing is I am old enough to remember when everyone was opposed to Wal-Mart coming to town. Since then we are minus a few local retailers. But since then, the way the world moves goods to market has changed so that not having a Wal-Mart would be the death of this city.
ReplyDeleteIt's not just because of Wal-Mart but because of how Wal-Mart is linked to so many other suppliers of retail and commercial goods and services.
Manufacturers say they cannot afford to fill orders in terms of dozens anymore. With the cost of energy where it is, can you imagine what it would cost for local clothiers or electronics to compete against bulk product movers.
Roger Sparks may be surviving but there is absolutely no one prospecting to buy him out and carry on the business. Jan's has local loyalty through public purchasers. Still it will be a chain conglomerate/franchiser that will absorb the Cowley market. If we are fortunate, they will even consider having a retail store here versus in the metro area - with token marketing and advertisement here - or perhaps they will just encourage folks out here in the sticks to order on-line.
Keep in mind that ATT Wireless boasts that they cover 97% of America. They've never been here local and their business plan says there is insufficient return on infra-structure investment to come into small town America.
My opinion? If Lowes opens a retail center here, let them. My prediction is they won't. They already have Cowley conditioned to shop in Kay County or Sedgwick County. Maybe they will eventually deliver larger orders for free.
The ship has already set sail and we were/are not on it folks.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/21/official-says-feds-process-illegals-referred-arizona/
ReplyDeleteFeds will not process illegals from Arizona.
Federal official says law which criminalizes being in the country illegaly is bad government.
What????
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/21/official-says-feds-process-illegals-referred-arizona/
My opinion? If Lowes opens a retail center here, let them. My prediction is they won't. They already have Cowley conditioned to shop in Kay County or Sedgwick County. Maybe they will eventually deliver larger orders for free.
ReplyDeleteThe ship has already set sail and we were/are not on it folks.
Well that was a good post!
I think for the most part your right!
I am sure the Ponca City Lowe's doesn't want to lose any market share to another store!
But
It seems the plan is always to get the cart before the horse!
Or
In this case a store before you have sufficient population or the area has an adequate income base to support those type amenities!
Right now we don't!
In the end its all about 20 acres who owns it and how they can get others to develope it!
(You sure have wasted a lot of time and effort catering to a group that hasn't done anything on their own for a long time! Just a bunch of land Speculators!)
Does that sound like an Economic Developmnt group that truly wants to develope or represent
the whole City or are NON-Profit?
Ships sail all the time and some are destine to SINK!
What is it about Ark City that makes people so negative? People seem to not want success, or development. They will do anything to stop progress.
ReplyDeleteThink of recent projects and all the opposition. Remodeling downtown with lights and flower pots, hospital, traffic circle on Kansas Ave.
The Lowe's deal.
Whatever else there is. Just wondered why it is.
6:44, the story actually says MAY not. The official said he MAY not prosecute.
ReplyDeleteTypical FOX "news"
@8:40 - I don't agree with the Arizona law. I don't think we need to "criminalize," behavior thats already illegal. I also think we should single out certain segments of society, who most likely are legal us citizens, and ask them to prove their citizenship. I think the new law invites harassment, and police misconduct. All that being said, I think we need to address the immigration problem. If you are here illegally, and you then break a law while you are here, you need to go. After doing time for your crime, plus an additional 2 years minimum for being here illegally...
ReplyDeleteThose are the new laws we need.
What is it about Ark City that makes people so negative?
ReplyDeleteWell someone ask why Winfield didn't have all the same type of controversies that seem to arise in A.C.?
The first thing that comes to mind?
They don't have ACI and a "Shadow Government" trying to push their own agenda!
* should have read, "should not single out..."
ReplyDelete"Shadow Government"??
ReplyDeleteLOL
Hey Fox Mulder.. I wondered where you'd been. When did you move to Ark City? Is Scully with you? Give her a big smooch for me.. she's purty.
"Shadow Government"??
ReplyDeleteWhat????
You don't know about a "Shadow Government"?
Business partners, relatives and group(s) who get people elected or appointed to Public positions or on boards to get their WAY!
Need I say more?
Btw: They also work to get their opposition removed from those same type positions!
When apparently that same developer approached Winfield with a TIF proposal! They were told that was not a possibility in Winfield!
No need to split the Citizenry! End of discussion!
Warren Porter is probably one of Winfield's greatest assets and advocates!
He supports the efforts of the Private Sector and draws a clear line between Private and Public responsibilities!
We need more Mr. Porters in local Government!
this is crazy, why would anyone support an ACI project, look how bad they have screwed their own business
ReplyDelete"this is crazy, why would anyone support an ACI project, look how bad they have screwed their own business " Just wait! The HNB fallout is just starting, The feds could actualy end up being partners in the ACI group. The fallout could also shed some light on one of our commission members. The whole ACI and the city partnership smells of corruption!
ReplyDeleteWasn't ACI created BY the city many years ago?
ReplyDeleteThey are supposed to be partners.
But, no matter what anyone tries to do, if they try to do something good, they will be based in Ark City.
@May 23 12:21 a.m. sumpin' to tink abot.
ReplyDeletethis whole town reminds me of a book titled, "this present darkness". read it, and you will think they patterned the characters after the 'leaders' and 'prominent' citizens around here. There is most definitely a 'darkness' felt around this community, maybe it is the same type of demons battling as in the book
ReplyDelete