Arkansas City will not be the focus now, but we can still talk about the town. For now the blog is a blog in search of an identity. Considering what the new niche will be.
Awwwww, I was just getting ready to applaud the page for having no national GOP v. Dem BS. The key point - and only valid point with this issue - (for those of you who will link to the law or claim it's not profiling or post links about illegals killing innocents) is a 2-word phrase...."reasonable suspicion." With any supporting viewpoint, I challenge you to define "reasonable suspicion." You cannot - because it is not defined in the law anywhere. It is subjective and can't be defined. That's the problem. I know you reds won't get it it, but there it is.
Not only are you completely misinformed, but you didn't even take the time to google the term "reasonable suspicion" to find out that there is a definition, and it has been in use by law enforcement for many many years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion
From the page:
Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard, in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; such suspicion is not a mere hunch.
So, if that was the key point to your argument, you should rethink your position.
Main Entry: reasonable suspicion Function: noun : an objectively justifiable suspicion that is based on specific facts or circumstances and that justifies stopping and sometimes searching (as by frisking) a person thought to be involved in criminal activity at the time —see also reasonable cause at CAUSE 2 —compare probable cause at CAUSE 2, TERRY STOP NOTE: A police officer stopping a person must be able to point to specific facts or circumstances even though the level of suspicion need not rise to that of the belief that is supported by probable cause. A reasonable suspicion is more than a hunch.
"Reasonable" and "suspicion" are both completely subjective terms. Together, even more so. "More than a hunch?" Would that be an inkling? A notion? I'm not sure how that hierarcy progresses. "...need not rise to that of the belief that is supported..." Thank you for helping to prove the point. I don't expect you to get it.
Trust me when I say that Law enforcement is trained in how to do their jobs. It doesn't matter if you can understand it or not. Any lawyer will tell you that reasonable suspicion has been used for many years and law enforcement should know what they can and cannot do. Granted, not all of them do, but they should. If they overstep, it gets thrown out of court. That's why we have courts.
Further proving my point. You are very useful. "Not all of them do," and "thrown out of court" both show "reasonable suspicion" is a very gray area. I understand it very well, thank you. Well enough to know it is flawed. I understand the spirit in which it is used, but one cannot say it is foolproof. It is widely used as a crutch when law enforcement is not able to perform their duties effectively.
I don't think you do understand it. It is a set standard. Law enforcement know how to use it. I know how to use it. Just because you don't does not make it flawed.
While reasonable suspicion gives officers legal authority to detain you, the absence of reasonable suspicion does not require officers to tell you that you're free to leave. They will often use your uncertainty as an opportunity to ask probing questions even if the conversation is legally "voluntary".
In such situations, it's up to you to determine if you're being detained or are free to go. Before answering an officer's questions, you may courteously ask "Officer, am I free to go?" If you're free to go, then go. If the officer's answer is unclear or he asks additional questions, you may persist by repeating "Officer, am I free to go?"
Keep in mind that refusing to answer an officers questions does not create reasonable suspicion. But they will tell you that it does. As our friend above says, the courts can sort through it "later."
"Your quote, not mine. Since "not all of them do," it is inherently flawed."
Using your logic, please tell me one single thing that everyone who is charged with doing it does exactly right. How about in Government? The private sector?
Name any standard operating procedure of any business, group, or entity that is done right by every person, every time.
They must all be "inherently flawed".
Everyone makes mistakes. That is why we have the courts. So those mistakes don't continue.
1:45, I agree with you that everyone should know their rights and exercise them when appropriate. I have always spoken about civil rights on these boards, and how to protect yourself. If a person does not know their rights and "voluntarily" gives up information that is not in their best interest, they have no one to blame bu themselves for not knowing their rights.
4:32 I checked for you - it's the playoffs and tickets are sold out. So, you're right - you won't be seeing them.
4:29 "Everyone makes mistakes." Again, thanks for the help. Perfect example of why reasonable suspicion, in the case in AZ, is a crock. Yeah, if a business next door to my house had it's padlock cut and there are bolt cutters on my front porch, I would call that reasonable suspicion. But you know as well as I, whether you admit it or not, there will be AZ cops following cars of Mexicans for miles waiting for a glimmer of "reasonable cause." If you can't admit that, you are not as savvy as you think.
Registered republican. I lean a little left of most Kansans when it comes to issues of civil liberties. Did not realize the edge of the earth was to the left. Watch out Nascar drivers!
No it is simply illegal to break our laws. If a cop is following them, just waiting for reasonable suspicion and they are illegal - they deserve it. We have laws for a reason people. There is nothing racist about having laws. If they aren't doing anything wrong, they don't have anything to worry about.
Do you think we shouldn't have any immigration laws? What is your big fix?
"If the new law in Arizona does not change a thing, why do we need it. The simple fact of the matter is, it is now iIllegal to be Hispanic in Arizona."
I really can't blame you for your ignorance, because the mainstream media has been trying to push the same view on people. The simple fact is, it is ILLEGAL to be an ILLEGAL alien ANYWHERE in this country. The simple fact is that our government has ignored the fact that the law is being broken with reckless abandon on our Southern border. Let's face facts... if you are here in this country ILLEGALLY, then you are breaking the law. It is the job of LAW ENFORCEMENT to ENFORCE the LAWS. See how that works?
Anyone of hispanic origin who is in this country LEGALLY has absolutely nothing to worry about. It's just the same as when you get pulled over here in Ark City. You may get pulled over for something like speeding, or a tail light out, or a tag light out, but THEN, if you are doing something ILLEGAL inside the car when the officer approaches, you will be arrested for it. The point: If you aren't illegal, you have nothing to fear. It's not the LEGAL hispanics who are freaking out about this new law, it's the ILLEGAL ones! 1/5 of the illegals in Arizona have already fled the state according to most sources. Great start for a law that hasn't even taken affect yet!
@10:24am - "If a cop is following them, just waiting for reasonable suspicion and they are illegal - they deserve it."
Wow. I agree, if you are here illegally, then you should face prison time or deportation. The country also needs to step up it's efforts to enforce our boarders, and seek out and prosecute illegals. It should not however harass legal us citizens. All of us make mistakes, do something illegal from time to time. We have a tail light out, run a light, fail to renew our tags. If we get pulled over we should pay the penalty. Most of us however do not have to prove citizenship when we are stopped, and we are not stopped becauseof the color of our skin, or because of our nation of orogin. Should it be okay for a cop to follow you because you come from a family he doesn't like, just waiting for you to mess up? I mean, if you break the law, then you deserve it. Is it okay for a cop not to look at all because you come from a family of prominence? Do you think cops ever look the other way just because of who someone is? Don't they deserve punishment if they break the law? I'm just saying we need to be consistent, and enforce the existing laws equally, and fairly.
Yes, something needs to be done about our immigration problem. I just don;t think intimidating legal US citizens is the way to go about it.
How bout all US citizens carry a card proving citizenship? How bout visitors carry a visa? No card, no visa, you go get detained. You stay here until you can prove identity. Then you go home. 2nd time caught here illegaly, 3 years in jail. 3rd 10years...
Make all citizens show proof of citizenship when they vote, when they get a license, when they get tags, when they get a job, when they get counted in the census, when they are legally stopped for a traffic offense...
"Should it be okay for a cop to follow you because you come from a family he doesn't like, just waiting for you to mess up? I mean, if you break the law, then you deserve it. Is it okay for a cop not to look at all because you come from a family of prominence? Do you think cops ever look the other way just because of who someone is? "
Anybody who tells you differently is in law enforcement.
The old "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you need not worry" excuse is getting tired. I have nothing illegal in my house, but I will not let cops bust down my door to check.
Someone mentioned showing ID to vote. When I moved to Kansas I was amazed to learn that i did not have to. First time I voted in Kansas the poll lady thought i was crazy cause I insisted she look at my ID before letting me vote. Other states require ID to vote. that just makes sense.
But also, about reasonable suspicion I got pulled over in OKC last year and had an interesting expereince. nearly got arrested over a misunderstandng .. all cause the cop said i did not signal adequately while changing lanes. if they treat someone from out of state like that ... what about someone who looked hispanic too eh.
I'm Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen. I want to explain SB 1070 which I voted for and was just signed by Governor Jan Brewer.
Rancher Rob Krantz was murdered by the drug cartel on his ranch a month ago. I participated in a senate hearing two weeks ago on the border violence, here is just some of the highlights from those who testified.
The people who live within 60 to 80 miles of the Arizona/Mexico Border have for years been terrorized and have pleaded for help to stop the daily invasion of humans who cross their property . One Rancher testified that 300 to 1200 people a DAY come across his ranch vandalizing his property, stealing his vehicles and property, cutting down his fences, and leaving trash. In the last two years he has found 17 dead bodies and two Koran bibles.
Another rancher testified that daily drugs are brought across his ranch in a military operation. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, 1/2 mile behind are the guards fully armed, 1/2 mile behind them are the drugs, behind the drugs 1/2 mile are more guards. These people are violent and they will kill anyone who gets in the way. This was not the only rancher we heard that day that talked about the drug trains.
One man told of two illegal's who came upon his property one shot in the back and the other in the arm by the drug runners who had forced them to carry the drugs and then shot them. Daily they listen to gun fire during the night it is not safe to leave his family alone on the ranch and they can't leave the ranch for fear of nothing being left when they come back.
The border patrol is not on the border. They have set up 60 miles away with check points that do nothing to stop the invasion. They are not allowed to use force in stopping anyone who is entering. They run around chasing them, if they get their hands on them then they can take them back across the border.
Federal prisons have over 35% illegal's and 20% of Arizona prisons are filled with illegals. In the last few years 80% of our law enforcement that have been killed or wounded have been by an illegal.
The majority of people coming now are people we need to be worried about. The ranchers told us that they have seen a change in the people coming they are not just those who are looking for work and a better life.
The Federal Government has refused for years to do anything to help the border states . We have been over run and once they are here we have the burden of funding state services that they use. Education cost have been over a billion dollars. The healthcare cost billions of dollars. Our State is broke, $3.5 billion deficit and we have many serious decisions to make. One is that we do not have the money to care for any who are not here legally. It has to stop. The border can be secured. We have the technology we have the ability to stop this invasion. We must know who is coming and they must come in an organized manner legally so that we can assimilate them into our population and protect the sovereignty of our country. We are a nation of laws. We have a responsibility to protect our citizens and to protect the integrity of our country and the government which we live under.
I would give amnesty today to many, but here is the problem, we dare not do this until the Border is secure. It will do no good to forgive them because thousands will come behind them and we will be over run to the point that there will no longer be the United States of America but a North American Union of open borders.
I ask you what form of government will we live under? How long will it be before we will be just like Mexico , Canada or any of the other Central American or South American countries? We have already lost our language, everything must be printed in Spanish also. We have already lost our history--it is no longer taught in our schools. And we have lost our borders.
The leftist media has distorted what SB 1070 will do. It is not going to set up a Nazi Germany. Are you kidding. The ACLU and the leftist courts will do everything to protect those who are here illegally, but it was an effort to try and stop illegal's from setting up businesses, and employment, and receiving state services and give the ability to local law enforcement when there is probable cause like a traffic stop to determine if they are here legally. Federal law is very clear if you are here on a visa you must have your papers on you at all times. That is the law. In Arizona all you need to show you are a legal citizen is a driver license, MVD identification card, Native American Card, or a Military ID. This is what you need to vote, get a hunting license, etc.. So nothing new has been added to this law. No one is going to be stopped walking down the street etc...
The Socialist who are in power in DC are angry because we dare try and do something and that something the Socialist wants us to do is just let them come. They want the "Transformation" to continue.
Maybe it is too late to save America . Maybe we are not worthy of freedom anymore. But as an elected official I must try to do what I can to protect our Constitutional Republic . Living in America is not a right just because you can walk across the border. Being an American is a responsibility and it comes by respecting and upholding the Constitution the law of our land which says what you must do to be a citizen of this country. Freedom is not free.
Seattle police beat man, shout racial slurs at him. "We're going to beat the f#*%ing Mexican out of you." The man was innocent, and not involved in the crime they were investigating.
Oh no. One police officer, several states away from Arizona, said something vaguely racist while questioning a suspect? Well, that must mean ALL cops in America are racists!! Right?!?!
And ALL white people eat Grey Poupon.
And ALL black people like fried chicken.
And ALL Mexicans wear sombraroes.
and ALL asian people love rice.
Hey, if ONE is that way, they must ALL be that way, RIGHT?
Also, SG, remember that logic when you or someone like you posts links to articles about Mexicans killing cops. "Hey, if ONE is that way, they must ALL be that way, RIGHT?
Arizona encourages police to emulate "the toughest sheriff in America" I especially like paragraphs 6-8. http://reason.com/archives/2010/05/05/arrest-everybody
"Hey, if ONE is that way, they must ALL be that way, RIGHT?
Well if they are here Illegaly - then they are all "Illegal"!
Its probably time for the States to take back their roles and duties regarding their affiars and constituencies and reduce the "power" of the Federal Government. Make the Federal Government answer to the States!
AND
Starting NOW is as good a time as ANY!
I wonder what the Sheriff will do with the corrupt politicians, businessmen, bankers and the liberals or conservatives who cheat the system and/or evade paying their taxes!
Or
Maybe avoid paying the cost to raise their children?
If its illegal why stop with the people from Mexico?
What's expected of the Greeks Greek austerity efforts are forecast to be a whopping 9% of GDP in fiscal 2010 and aim both to cut spending and raise revenue. On the revenue-raising side, Greeks can expect an increased VAT tax, increased sin taxes, a widened tax base on property and luxury items, windfall taxes on profitable businesses, and a major crackdown on tax evasion. It's this last effort that has the potential to move the needle most for the Greek budget. The Greek government at present collects just 4.7% of GDP in personal income tax -- a little more than half of other European countries despite comparable tax rates.
In terms of spending cuts, the country is staring down freezes and cuts in public sector salaries, allowances, and pensions as well as restrictions on procurements. For a country that sacrifices up to 8% of its GDP annually to nepotism, cronyism, and bribery, according to Daniel Kaufmann of the Brookings Institution, this could also make a real difference.
Here's what I mean In most cases, of course, these plans and projections would be just about worthless. That's because most governments build their financial models from ridiculous assumptions. Take, for example, the U.S. government budget for fiscal 2011. Its 10-year deficit reduction goal is a relatively modest $1.2 trillion, which would cut our annual deficit from 5% to 4% of GDP annually.
Yet even this forecast is based on a real GDP growth forecast of 4.3% in 2011, 4.3% in 2012, and 4.2% in 2013. To put this in context, the U.S. has not sustained better than 4% GDP growth for three years since the three-year period ending 1999. You may remember that as the top of the dot-com bubble -- a temporary boom that ended as a ridiculous bust. Prior to that, it was the three years ending 1985.
In other words, maybe we're due. More likely, the federal budget is far too optimistic. As Christina Romer, head of the White House Council of Economic Advisors, said in a live chat at the time of the budget release, "all forecasts have to be understood to be subject to substantial margins of error."
-----
Or
Their budget forecasts are based on Lies! (Richest most powerful country in the world!)
We probably do need the toughest Sheriff around but Obama isn't him!
However
We could probably get him a role of Sherrif in the re-making of Blazzing Saddles!
@3:54 p.m. Sobering. I think so anyway. Sad truth is facts seem to fall on deaf ears. I feel sure someone somewhere along the way tried to tell the Greeks that someday the well would run dry. Now, being told they have to work and the lotto is over they react like a bunch of spoiled children & start tearing up their room. (in this case their country) If it were possible, I'd say let 'em sink, albeit that may not be possible. I'm no economist but I know you can't spend money you don't have. Not for long anyway.
Trouble is much of the U.S. population's attention span isn't long enough to read & understand your post. Plus, many just don't care and some just don't want to know. IMO
Lest we let the AZ law deteriorate into a racist rant. I personally think race has NOTHING to do with it. There is a reason why 70% of Arizonians favor the law. The reason is...THEY LIVE THERE. There are things about KS that only Kansans would understand and an Alaskan or Floridian would be totally ignorant of. We live here.
The Governor of AZ has a message for the POTUS. One minute long.
I'll say it again. WE HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM ON OUR BORDERS. We need to find ways to secure them. We need to find who is here illegally, and either grant them legal status (if they are working, able to pay taxes, and not in any other way involved in criminal activity), or deport them. I'm not certain our economy could survive sending all productive illegals back. Those found to have committed crimes while here illegally, need to be prosecuted. But we cannot harass legal, law abiding US citizens.
@3:54 p.m. Sobering. I think so anyway. Sad truth is facts seem to fall on deaf ears.
D.Q.
I know - it gets even better when you figure the projections for his healthcare bill costs were calculated from those same budget projections! It's not the first time I've seen them! (That healthcare bill is going to be one expensive mother!)
I do think that the Federal Government is simply beyond its boundries! The President and Congress can't pull this one out!
It's going to have to be done by the Citizens and States!
The thing that perplexes me the most? Is why we keep funding/extending the same failed policies and programs at all levels of Government?
I believe there are better answers some more in line with our modern age! While others still remain in the values of our past!
I'm no economist but I know you can't spend money you don't have. Not for long anyway.
Well they probably can - but at some point the value of the money comes into question along with all other values! (Because of the ability to pay back the debt either with currency or assets!)
Looks like the Federal Reserve is going to bailout Greece and the EU!
One aside at least for now the U.S. is still the save haven in the world!
But at some point we are already taxing the lives of U.S. citizens who are yet to be BORN! (If they let them be born!)
I'm not sure we should be bailing out our own country, let alone Greece. Buck up, tighten your belt, reduce spending - raise taxes... Why is this so hard to understand? How did Greece not understand that this was going to catch up with them. They give their public employees two months salary at Christmas and Easter for Pete's sake, and now we are paying for it? Give me a break.
Perhaps it is time to try an Idea that is Biblical.
How about getting together with all the nations of the world and declare a year of Jubilee.
Each nation will forgive the debt it is owed.
Everyone starts fresh.
No debt would translate to lower interest rates, increased lending at home, increased productivity and prosperity, and therefore increased spending.
China, which probably stands to loose the most, would benefit as well. When nations are relieved of their debt, it will free up capital which they can then spend purchasing goods from China.
I guess we can take the advise of our bleeding heart liberal friends and just let them all come here and be legal. I wonder how well we will be treated by the Mexicans, etc when they are in power? Will they be bleeding heart liberals as well and be nice to us? Do you think they will pay us welfare money since they have taken all our jobs? Do you think they will give us free healthcare?
I guess we can just sit back and let Obama and his crew grant them amnesty and before you know it, we will find out. Keep your fingers crossed. You know how well they treat their immigrants!
Fannine Mae is requesting 8.4 Billion after posting a quaterly loss of 13.1 Billion.
Just four days after
Freddie Mac asked for 10.6 Billion after posting a loss of 8 billion.
Fannie has recieved 76.2 billion Freddie has recieved 50.7 billion
---
How about getting together with all the nations of the world and declare a year of Jubilee.
----
In a sense Benanke tried something like this when he dropped the interst rates to ZERO%! But the bailed out bankers borrowed at zero and invested in places where they could get a higher and quicker return on their money! Instead of the longer term it was going to take to invest in a struggling U.S.A.! They paid off their loans!
AND
FAST AND EASY MONEY RULES THE DAY! (that is even evident in the illegal drug trade!)
Awwwww, I was just getting ready to applaud the page for having no national GOP v. Dem BS. The key point - and only valid point with this issue - (for those of you who will link to the law or claim it's not profiling or post links about illegals killing innocents) is a 2-word phrase...."reasonable suspicion." With any supporting viewpoint, I challenge you to define "reasonable suspicion." You cannot - because it is not defined in the law anywhere. It is subjective and can't be defined. That's the problem. I know you reds won't get it it, but there it is.
ReplyDeleteI thought what the NBA team was doing was interesting. I am trying to leave the rep-dem thing behind.
ReplyDelete7:11,
ReplyDeleteNot only are you completely misinformed, but you didn't even take the time to google the term "reasonable suspicion" to find out that there is a definition, and it has been in use by law enforcement for many many years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion
From the page:
Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard, in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; such suspicion is not a mere hunch.
So, if that was the key point to your argument, you should rethink your position.
Legal Dictionary
ReplyDeleteMain Entry: reasonable suspicion
Function: noun
: an objectively justifiable suspicion that is based on specific facts or circumstances and that justifies stopping and sometimes searching (as by frisking) a person thought to be involved in criminal activity at the time —see also reasonable cause at CAUSE 2 —compare probable cause at CAUSE 2, TERRY STOP
NOTE: A police officer stopping a person must be able to point to specific facts or circumstances even though the level of suspicion need not rise to that of the belief that is supported by probable cause. A reasonable suspicion is more than a hunch.
"Reasonable" and "suspicion" are both completely subjective terms. Together, even more so. "More than a hunch?" Would that be an inkling? A notion? I'm not sure how that hierarcy progresses.
ReplyDelete"...need not rise to that of the belief that is supported..." Thank you for helping to prove the point.
I don't expect you to get it.
Trust me when I say that Law enforcement is trained in how to do their jobs. It doesn't matter if you can understand it or not. Any lawyer will tell you that reasonable suspicion has been used for many years and law enforcement should know what they can and cannot do. Granted, not all of them do, but they should. If they overstep, it gets thrown out of court. That's why we have courts.
ReplyDeleteFurther proving my point. You are very useful. "Not all of them do," and "thrown out of court" both show "reasonable suspicion" is a very gray area. I understand it very well, thank you. Well enough to know it is flawed. I understand the spirit in which it is used, but one cannot say it is foolproof. It is widely used as a crutch when law enforcement is not able to perform their duties effectively.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you do understand it. It is a set standard. Law enforcement know how to use it. I know how to use it. Just because you don't does not make it flawed.
ReplyDelete"Granted, not all of them do"
ReplyDeleteYour quote, not mine. Since "not all of them do," it is inherently flawed.
While reasonable suspicion gives officers legal authority to detain you, the absence of reasonable suspicion does not require officers to tell you that you're free to leave. They will often use your uncertainty as an opportunity to ask probing questions even if the conversation is legally "voluntary".
ReplyDeleteIn such situations, it's up to you to determine if you're being detained or are free to go. Before answering an officer's questions, you may courteously ask "Officer, am I free to go?" If you're free to go, then go. If the officer's answer is unclear or he asks additional questions, you may persist by repeating "Officer, am I free to go?"
Keep in mind that refusing to answer an officers questions does not create reasonable suspicion.
But they will tell you that it does. As our friend above says, the courts can sort through it "later."
Sounds like BD is back. Where has she been anyway?
ReplyDelete"Your quote, not mine. Since "not all of them do," it is inherently flawed."
ReplyDeleteUsing your logic, please tell me one single thing that everyone who is charged with doing it does exactly right. How about in Government? The private sector?
Name any standard operating procedure of any business, group, or entity that is done right by every person, every time.
They must all be "inherently flawed".
Everyone makes mistakes. That is why we have the courts. So those mistakes don't continue.
1:45, I agree with you that everyone should know their rights and exercise them when appropriate. I have always spoken about civil rights on these boards, and how to protect yourself. If a person does not know their rights and "voluntarily" gives up information that is not in their best interest, they have no one to blame bu themselves for not knowing their rights.
I am planning a vacation to Arizona, and I am planning on spending a crap ton of money while I'm there. But I won't be going to see the "Los Suns".
ReplyDelete4:32 I checked for you - it's the playoffs and tickets are sold out. So, you're right - you won't be seeing them.
ReplyDelete4:29 "Everyone makes mistakes." Again, thanks for the help. Perfect example of why reasonable suspicion, in the case in AZ, is a crock. Yeah, if a business next door to my house had it's padlock cut and there are bolt cutters on my front porch, I would call that reasonable suspicion. But you know as well as I, whether you admit it or not, there will be AZ cops following cars of Mexicans for miles waiting for a glimmer of "reasonable cause." If you can't admit that, you are not as savvy as you think.
@May 7, 2010 7:13 AM
ReplyDeleteIf you go any more to the left?
You might fall off the face of the Earth!
Registered republican. I lean a little left of most Kansans when it comes to issues of civil liberties.
ReplyDeleteDid not realize the edge of the earth was to the left. Watch out Nascar drivers!
If the new law in Arizona does not change a thing, why do we need it. The simple fact of the matter is, it is now iIllegal to be Hispanic in Arizona.
ReplyDeleteNo it is simply illegal to break our laws. If a cop is following them, just waiting for reasonable suspicion and they are illegal - they deserve it. We have laws for a reason people. There is nothing racist about having laws. If they aren't doing anything wrong, they don't have anything to worry about.
ReplyDeleteDo you think we shouldn't have any immigration laws? What is your big fix?
"If the new law in Arizona does not change a thing, why do we need it. The simple fact of the matter is, it is now iIllegal to be Hispanic in Arizona."
ReplyDeleteI really can't blame you for your ignorance, because the mainstream media has been trying to push the same view on people. The simple fact is, it is ILLEGAL to be an ILLEGAL alien ANYWHERE in this country. The simple fact is that our government has ignored the fact that the law is being broken with reckless abandon on our Southern border. Let's face facts... if you are here in this country ILLEGALLY, then you are breaking the law. It is the job of LAW ENFORCEMENT to ENFORCE the LAWS. See how that works?
Anyone of hispanic origin who is in this country LEGALLY has absolutely nothing to worry about. It's just the same as when you get pulled over here in Ark City. You may get pulled over for something like speeding, or a tail light out, or a tag light out, but THEN, if you are doing something ILLEGAL inside the car when the officer approaches, you will be arrested for it. The point: If you aren't illegal, you have nothing to fear. It's not the LEGAL hispanics who are freaking out about this new law, it's the ILLEGAL ones! 1/5 of the illegals in Arizona have already fled the state according to most sources. Great start for a law that hasn't even taken affect yet!
@10:24am - "If a cop is following them, just waiting for reasonable suspicion and they are illegal - they deserve it."
ReplyDeleteWow. I agree, if you are here illegally, then you should face prison time or deportation. The country also needs to step up it's efforts to enforce our boarders, and seek out and prosecute illegals. It should not however harass legal us citizens.
All of us make mistakes, do something illegal from time to time. We have a tail light out, run a light, fail to renew our tags. If we get pulled over we should pay the penalty. Most of us however do not have to prove citizenship when we are stopped, and we are not stopped becauseof the color of our skin, or because of our nation of orogin. Should it be okay for a cop to follow you because you come from a family he doesn't like, just waiting for you to mess up? I mean, if you break the law, then you deserve it. Is it okay for a cop not to look at all because you come from a family of prominence? Do you think cops ever look the other way just because of who someone is? Don't they deserve punishment if they break the law? I'm just saying we need to be consistent, and enforce the existing laws equally, and fairly.
Yes, something needs to be done about our immigration problem. I just don;t think intimidating legal US citizens is the way to go about it.
What is my big fix?
ReplyDeleteHow bout all US citizens carry a card proving citizenship? How bout visitors carry a visa? No card, no visa, you go get detained.
You stay here until you can prove identity.
Then you go home.
2nd time caught here illegaly, 3 years in jail.
3rd 10years...
Make all citizens show proof of citizenship when they vote, when they get a license, when they get tags, when they get a job, when they get counted in the census, when they are legally stopped for a traffic offense...
Just don't harass legal, law abiding citizens...
"Should it be okay for a cop to follow you because you come from a family he doesn't like, just waiting for you to mess up? I mean, if you break the law, then you deserve it. Is it okay for a cop not to look at all because you come from a family of prominence? Do you think cops ever look the other way just because of who someone is? "
ReplyDeleteAnybody who tells you differently is in law enforcement.
The old "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you need not worry" excuse is getting tired. I have nothing illegal in my house, but I will not let cops bust down my door to check.
ReplyDelete@3:35pm "I have nothing illegal in my house, but I will not let cops bust down my door to check."
ReplyDeleteIf you really had nothing to hide, they wouldn't have to bust down your door. You would willingly let them in.
Even if they camp outside your house just waiting for "reasonable suspicion."
Someone mentioned showing ID to vote. When I moved to Kansas I was amazed to learn that i did not have to. First time I voted in Kansas the poll lady thought i was crazy cause I insisted she look at my ID before letting me vote.
ReplyDeleteOther states require ID to vote. that just makes sense.
But also, about reasonable suspicion
I got pulled over in OKC last year and had an interesting expereince. nearly got arrested over a misunderstandng .. all cause the cop said i did not signal adequately while changing lanes.
if they treat someone from out of state like that ... what about someone who looked hispanic too eh.
Arizona State Senator Explains Anti-Illegal Bill
ReplyDeleteThis is worth the read, trust me.
I'm Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen. I want to explain SB 1070 which I voted for and was just signed by Governor Jan Brewer.
Rancher Rob Krantz was murdered by the drug cartel on his ranch a month ago. I participated in a senate hearing two weeks ago on the border violence, here is just some of the highlights from those who testified.
The people who live within 60 to 80 miles of the Arizona/Mexico Border have for years been terrorized and have pleaded for help to stop the daily invasion of humans who cross their property . One Rancher testified that 300 to 1200 people a DAY come across his ranch vandalizing his property, stealing his vehicles and property, cutting down his fences, and leaving trash. In the last
two years he has found 17 dead bodies and two Koran bibles.
Another rancher testified that daily drugs are brought across his ranch in a military operation. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, 1/2 mile behind are the guards fully armed, 1/2 mile behind them are the drugs, behind the drugs 1/2 mile are more guards. These people are violent and they will kill anyone who gets in the way. This was not the only rancher we heard that day that talked about the drug trains.
One man told of two illegal's who came upon his property one shot in the back and the other in the arm by the drug runners who had forced them to carry the drugs and then shot them. Daily they listen to gun fire during the night it is not safe to leave his family alone on the ranch and they can't leave the ranch for fear of nothing being left when they come back.
The border patrol is not on the border. They have set up 60 miles away with check points that do nothing to stop the invasion. They are not allowed to use force in stopping anyone who is entering. They run around chasing them, if they get their hands on them then they can take them back across the border.
Federal prisons have over 35% illegal's and 20% of Arizona prisons are filled with illegals. In the last few years 80% of our law enforcement that have been killed or wounded have been by an illegal.
The majority of people coming now are people we need to be worried about. The ranchers told us that they have seen a change in the people coming they are not just those who are looking for work and a better life.
The Federal Government has refused for years to do anything to help the border states . We have been over run and once they are here we have the burden of funding state services that they use. Education cost have been over a billion dollars. The healthcare cost billions of dollars. Our State is broke, $3.5 billion deficit and we have many serious decisions to make. One is that we do not have the money to care for any who are not here legally. It has to stop.
The border can be secured. We have the technology we have the ability to stop this invasion. We must know who is coming and they must come in an organized manner legally so that we can assimilate them into our population and protect the sovereignty of our country. We are a nation of laws. We have a responsibility to protect our citizens and to protect the integrity of our country and the government which we live under.
(CONTINUED)
(CONTINUED FROM ABOVE POST)
ReplyDeleteI would give amnesty today to many, but here is the problem, we dare not do this until the Border is secure. It will do no good to forgive them because thousands will come behind them and we will be over run to the point that there will no longer be the United States of America but a North American Union of open borders.
I ask you what form of government will we live under? How long will it be before we will be just like Mexico , Canada or any of the
other Central American or South American countries? We have already lost our language, everything must be printed in Spanish also. We have already lost our history--it is no longer taught in our schools. And we have lost our borders.
The leftist media has distorted what SB 1070 will do. It is not going to set up a Nazi Germany. Are you kidding. The ACLU and the leftist courts will do everything to protect those who are here illegally, but it was an effort to try and stop illegal's from setting up businesses, and employment, and receiving state services and give the ability to local law enforcement when there is probable cause like a traffic stop to determine if they are here legally. Federal law is very clear if you are here on a visa you must have your papers on you at all times. That is the law. In Arizona all you need to show you are a legal citizen is a driver license, MVD identification card,
Native American Card, or a Military ID. This is what you need to vote, get a hunting license, etc.. So nothing new has been added to this law. No one is going to be stopped walking down the street etc...
The Socialist who are in power in DC are angry because we dare try and do something and that something the Socialist wants us to do is just let them come. They want the "Transformation" to continue.
Maybe it is too late to save America . Maybe we are not worthy of freedom anymore. But as an elected official I must try to do what I can to protect our Constitutional Republic . Living in America is not a right just because you can walk across the border. Being an American is a responsibility and it comes by respecting and upholding the Constitution the law of our land which says what you must do to be a citizen of this country. Freedom is not free.
@8:27pm - And the new law fixes this how?
ReplyDeleteRead it and find out!
ReplyDeleteSeattle police beat man, shout racial slurs at him. "We're going to beat the f#*%ing Mexican out of you." The man was innocent, and not involved in the crime they were investigating.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.kirotv.com/investigations/23490010/detail.html
But hey, you can't really blame the Seattle police, he was Mexican.
ReplyDeleteAt least they didn't rape and kill him, which Mexican police do frequently to illegal immigrants from the South of them.
ReplyDeleteOh no. One police officer, several states away from Arizona, said something vaguely racist while questioning a suspect? Well, that must mean ALL cops in America are racists!! Right?!?!
ReplyDeleteAnd ALL white people eat Grey Poupon.
And ALL black people like fried chicken.
And ALL Mexicans wear sombraroes.
and ALL asian people love rice.
Hey, if ONE is that way, they must ALL be that way, RIGHT?
Dumb.
No, idiot, it means if one can do it, it could happen elsewhere. Not all the time, but sometime. Open your eyes.
ReplyDeleteAlso, SG, remember that logic when you or someone like you posts links to articles about Mexicans killing cops.
ReplyDelete"Hey, if ONE is that way, they must ALL be that way, RIGHT?
Dumb"
Yeah, pretty dumb.
Arizona encourages police to emulate "the toughest sheriff in America"
ReplyDeleteI especially like paragraphs 6-8.
http://reason.com/archives/2010/05/05/arrest-everybody
"Hey, if ONE is that way, they must ALL be that way, RIGHT?
ReplyDeleteWell if they are here Illegaly - then they are all "Illegal"!
Its probably time for the States to take back their roles and duties regarding their affiars and constituencies and reduce the "power" of the Federal Government.
Make the Federal Government answer to the States!
AND
Starting NOW is as good a time as ANY!
I wonder what the Sheriff will do with the corrupt politicians, businessmen, bankers and the liberals or conservatives who cheat the system and/or evade paying their taxes!
Or
Maybe avoid paying the cost to raise their children?
If its illegal why stop with the people from Mexico?
If its illegal "bust" them ALL!
From a Motley Fool Article:
ReplyDeleteWhat's expected of the Greeks
Greek austerity efforts are forecast to be a whopping 9% of GDP in fiscal 2010 and aim both to cut spending and raise revenue. On the revenue-raising side, Greeks can expect an increased VAT tax, increased sin taxes, a widened tax base on property and luxury items, windfall taxes on profitable businesses, and a major crackdown on tax evasion. It's this last effort that has the potential to move the needle most for the Greek budget. The Greek government at present collects just 4.7% of GDP in personal income tax -- a little more than half of other European countries despite comparable tax rates.
In terms of spending cuts, the country is staring down freezes and cuts in public sector salaries, allowances, and pensions as well as restrictions on procurements. For a country that sacrifices up to 8% of its GDP annually to nepotism, cronyism, and bribery, according to Daniel Kaufmann of the Brookings Institution, this could also make a real difference.
Here's what I mean
In most cases, of course, these plans and projections would be just about worthless. That's because most governments build their financial models from ridiculous assumptions. Take, for example, the U.S. government budget for fiscal 2011. Its 10-year deficit reduction goal is a relatively modest $1.2 trillion, which would cut our annual deficit from 5% to 4% of GDP annually.
Yet even this forecast is based on a real GDP growth forecast of 4.3% in 2011, 4.3% in 2012, and 4.2% in 2013. To put this in context, the U.S. has not sustained better than 4% GDP growth for three years since the three-year period ending 1999. You may remember that as the top of the dot-com bubble -- a temporary boom that ended as a ridiculous bust. Prior to that, it was the three years ending 1985.
In other words, maybe we're due. More likely, the federal budget is far too optimistic. As Christina Romer, head of the White House Council of Economic Advisors, said in a live chat at the time of the budget release, "all forecasts have to be understood to be subject to substantial margins of error."
-----
Or
Their budget forecasts are based on Lies!
(Richest most powerful country in the world!)
We probably do need the toughest Sheriff around but Obama isn't him!
However
We could probably get him a role of Sherrif in the re-making of Blazzing Saddles!
And
Nancy Pelosi?
It's true it's true!
@3:54 p.m. Sobering. I think so anyway. Sad truth is facts seem to fall on deaf ears. I feel sure someone somewhere along the way tried to tell the Greeks that someday the well would run dry. Now, being told they have to work and the lotto is over they react like a bunch of spoiled children & start tearing up their room. (in this case their country) If it were possible, I'd say let 'em sink, albeit that may not be possible. I'm no economist but I know you can't spend money you don't have. Not for long anyway.
ReplyDeleteTrouble is much of the U.S. population's attention span isn't long enough to read & understand your post. Plus, many just don't care and some just don't want to know. IMO
D.Q.
Lest we let the AZ law deteriorate into a racist rant. I personally think race has NOTHING to do with it. There is a reason why 70% of Arizonians favor the law. The reason is...THEY LIVE THERE.
ReplyDeleteThere are things about KS that only Kansans would understand and an Alaskan or Floridian would be totally ignorant of. We live here.
The Governor of AZ has a message for the POTUS.
One minute long.
http://www.breitbart.tv/arizona-governor-has-serious-video-message-for-president-obama/
D.Q.
I'll say it again. WE HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM ON OUR BORDERS. We need to find ways to secure them. We need to find who is here illegally, and either grant them legal status (if they are working, able to pay taxes, and not in any other way involved in criminal activity), or deport them. I'm not certain our economy could survive sending all productive illegals back. Those found to have committed crimes while here illegally, need to be prosecuted. But we cannot harass legal, law abiding US citizens.
ReplyDelete@3:54 p.m. Sobering. I think so anyway. Sad truth is facts seem to fall on deaf ears.
ReplyDeleteD.Q.
I know - it gets even better when you figure the projections for his healthcare bill costs were calculated from those same budget projections! It's not the first time I've seen them! (That healthcare bill is going to be one expensive mother!)
I do think that the Federal Government is simply beyond its boundries! The President and Congress can't pull this one out!
It's going to have to be done by the Citizens and States!
The thing that perplexes me the most?
Is why we keep funding/extending the same failed policies and programs at all levels of Government?
I believe there are better answers some more in line with our modern age! While others still remain in the values of our past!
I'm no economist but I know you can't spend money you don't have. Not for long anyway.
ReplyDeleteWell they probably can - but at some point the value of the money comes into question along with all other values! (Because of the ability to pay back the debt either with currency or assets!)
Looks like the Federal Reserve is going to bailout Greece and the EU!
One aside at least for now the U.S. is still the save haven in the world!
But at some point we are already taxing the lives of U.S. citizens who are yet to be BORN!
(If they let them be born!)
I'm not sure we should be bailing out our own country, let alone Greece. Buck up, tighten your belt, reduce spending - raise taxes...
ReplyDeleteWhy is this so hard to understand?
How did Greece not understand that this was going to catch up with them. They give their public employees two months salary at Christmas and Easter for Pete's sake, and now we are paying for it? Give me a break.
Perhaps it is time to try an Idea that is Biblical.
ReplyDeleteHow about getting together with all the nations of the world and declare a year of Jubilee.
Each nation will forgive the debt it is owed.
Everyone starts fresh.
No debt would translate to lower interest rates, increased lending at home, increased productivity and prosperity, and therefore increased spending.
China, which probably stands to loose the most, would benefit as well. When nations are relieved of their debt, it will free up capital which they can then spend purchasing goods from China.
I think it would work...
I guess we can take the advise of our bleeding heart liberal friends and just let them all come here and be legal. I wonder how well we will be treated by the Mexicans, etc when they are in power? Will they be bleeding heart liberals as well and be nice to us? Do you think they will pay us welfare money since they have taken all our jobs? Do you think they will give us free healthcare?
ReplyDeleteI guess we can just sit back and let Obama and his crew grant them amnesty and before you know it, we will find out. Keep your fingers crossed. You know how well they treat their immigrants!
Breaking news on CNN this A.M.
ReplyDeleteFannine Mae is requesting 8.4 Billion after posting a quaterly loss of 13.1 Billion.
Just four days after
Freddie Mac asked for 10.6 Billion after posting a loss of 8 billion.
Fannie has recieved 76.2 billion
Freddie has recieved 50.7 billion
---
How about getting together with all the nations
of the world and declare a year of Jubilee.
----
In a sense Benanke tried something like this when he dropped the interst rates to ZERO%!
But the bailed out bankers borrowed at zero and invested in places where they could get a higher and quicker return on their money!
Instead of the longer term it was going to take to invest in a struggling U.S.A.!
They paid off their loans!
AND
FAST AND EASY MONEY RULES THE DAY!
(that is even evident in the illegal drug
trade!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqPo5ofk0s
ReplyDeleteREVOLUTION!
I say Bring It!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_ylVIcoWRo&playnext_from=TL&videos=XgWhbZC5_QA&feature=sub
ReplyDelete