I suppose I could answer your question with a question.well thats the point ive been making for months - maybe years -
What's the Democrat answer?
your only answer to "what is the republican answer" is "what is the dem answer"
which is to say ....the only thing we can say is the other side is worse...
or the only answer you have is to point at the other side.
the dems say the same... their answer is _ at least we're not as bad as the other side -
neither party has any answers, its time to move beyond parties. there are other parties, and new parties can be started... and will eventually when enough people get tired of the dem-pub, cons-lib fighting.
the idea that we have to have a two party system is a lie ...
if you think beyond your ideology at all, you will see that there are many issues where con-lib does not fit. neither side is right about everything, and in more cases than not, both sides are wrong
both are extremes. you can look at every issue through the lense of your partys ideology if you want, but if you take the glasses off, you will see that both sides are just putting their spin on every issue ... there is no truth, just the left or right spin...
so many times it happens, if you disagree with someone, or question something they say, they dismisss you as a lib or con... they wont even think about the issue, its just a matter of which side you are on.
its not even about politics really, its about money - cash flow....
i wish people could see the money that is being made creating this divisiveness in our country. if anytihng will destroy us it is the divisiveness, but the media mogules - both con and lib - are more into making money than caring about the country.. yes our economy has problems, it has had problems before, it will recover, and when it does many other problems will be fixed.
Dont you remember the 80s and hyper inflation? or was that the 70s? .. then it got better in the 90s, and of course both sides took credit.
but just think about the major spokespersons for both sides. (i really dont listen to any talk radio or tv anymore, i dont even know their names anymore... i guess rush is still around?)
they need to keep ratings up, they need to sell books, papers, etc., so keeping the division going is how they do that....
we are not sinking, that is just b-s /... part of the selling of division is the selling of fear and paranoia.. remember the "RED" scare of the 60s the cold war and all... now it was serious with the nukes around, but the ruskies were just as scared as we were and doing the same things as far as selling the population on fear and paranoia.
look at our history honestly .... we have had problems before, worse than now... and we always came through...
WWII could easily have been lost, there was the great depression (and real socialism was waiting in the wings to take over then. i think it was more a threat then than now)
after the civil war, just about any country could have invaded and taken over.
had the brits not been so arrogant, they would still own the colonies..
the economy will improve.. things will get better and the cycle will start again.
i really think a lot of it is just natural cycles that we really cant do anything about, we can maybe influence them some, make it faster or slower, but the cycles are natural and you cant really fight nature.....
But the Republicans have given an answer. Stop spending! Paul Ryan's plan is a big step in the right direction. How many senseless pork projects are we wasting money on? Taxpayers should not be footing the bill for pork. Take our hike and bike trail for example. Yes, it will be nice to have, but does it bring in any money? No. Does it cost the taxpayers money, in a time when we should be cutting unnecessary spending? Yes. The Traveler talking head keeps saying that if the money doesn't get spent here, it will get spent somewhere else, and therein lies the problem. Stop spending tax money on unnecessary bullsh*t! Tighten the country's belt until we get ourselves out of this hole we are in.
ReplyDeletehow about stop spending billions of dollars on a war over weapons of mass destruction that never existed, and fighting against a country over 9-11 that had nothing to do with that event.
ReplyDeleteThat would help solve financial problems a lot.
The answer is not to stop spending.
That is just too simplistic. If we stopped the war, brought all our troops home and stopped being cops for the world ... what would we save?
Why do you object to a bike path but not to billions on wars that make no sense?
When industry and business look for a place to move, one of the considerations is quality of life. The hike and bike is a quality of life issue, and would be a factor. Not to mention, it is good for people who use it .. Spending to improve everyone's quality of life is good .. just because you dont want to use it, does not give you the right to deprive everyone else.
The Lowes would have been a draw too ...... at least they were not able to stop this piece of progress. (but we had to save the old hardware store ... yea , oh wait ..)
i hate it, but the talking head at brand-x is right. The money would be spent elsewhere.
what you are refusing to see, is that this money has already been allocated .. to reject it would not save a single penny for anyone.
This is tax money that has already been paid and spent... X number of dollars at the state level for community improvements .. if you turn down your share someone else gets it. it doesnt affect the total amount at all..
To say rejecting the hike and bike to save money is about the silliest things i have ever heard.
Total nonsense.
Remember me writing about the spending ordinance in south carolina?
They passed a stop spending ordinance. The county could NOT spend over a certain amount.
So they couldn't fix potholes or leaky roofs.
To pay for gasoline for police cars they had to borrow money and pay interest ... instead of using money they had on hand.
They had 30 million dollars in the bank, but were having to borrow $20,000 and pay interest on that money. (This county had 300,000 people).
But this illustrates why stopping spending is a simplistic idea that will not work.
Some smartalec reporter (yours truly) figured out that the county spent something just over $100,000 per year on interest payments on loans for basic necessities such as gasoline and toilet paper.. So the stop spending ordinance cost taxpayers that much per year.
Finally it was overturned...
Now we should hold govt accountable. If there is a specific item or area where there is waste ... i say. go get em and stop em ....
neither party has any answers, its time to move beyond parties. there are other parties, and new parties can be started... and will eventually when enough people get tired of the dem-pub, cons-lib fighting.
ReplyDeleteThe part of that you missed - The Government is not the two party system or any additional parties that you want to create!
The Government is all the Laws, Programs, Employees, Property, (Like buildings and National Parks).
The Politicians are just the group of appointed or elected officials that oversee the and represent the Public (people's) interest and welfare as it relates to the Government!
If you put a massive and out of control Program Like the EPA in place unchecked - it will grow unchecked!
The Government as described above - not the Politicians will simply continue to GROW! (Because the Empire Builders in charge of each Program/Dept. aren't controlled!)
Obamacare is probably the "Crown Jewel" of Empire Building! (It will be so massive that in the end it will collapse under its own weight - it will be unmanageable!)
Probably the most efficient way to administer and enforce accountability is at the "Lowest levels of Government"! Not at the TOP!
You do it every month with your checkbook!
When you review your bills!
When you look at your Healthcare or other
statements and check them for mistakes!
You can't do that where the goal is to write massive checks with little or no accountability - That's what you have with Politicians and the Government (Gov. as defined
above.)
i say. go get em and stop em ....
They know there is fraud in Welfare!
They know there is fraud in Medicare!
They know there is fraud in Social Security!
They know there is fraud in Immigration!
and on and on........
They ALREADY KNOW but they can't or won't stop it at the Federal Level!
It's surely time to strip the Federal Government and Politicians of their "POWER" and return it to the States and Local Governments!
(Additional Parties isn't the answer!)
(The only problem is States like California will GO BROKE! They already are just don't know it and are hoping the Politicians and Rest of the Country will bail them out!
If California were a Country it would be the 13 largest economy in the world! Did I say their Broke?)
Kind of reminds you of the same situation of the PIIGS in Europe!
(They might even hope another Country like China will bail/buy them out before it's all over!)
"what you are refusing to see, is that this money has already been allocated .. to reject it would not save a single penny for anyone."
ReplyDeleteYes, I do realize that, and that was exactly my point. Why are the governing bodies allocating taxpayer money to useless projects like the bike path when we should be spending it on nothing but the basic necessities.
We are in a hole. Stop digging!
as far as the wars are concerned, can we stop blaming Bush for those yet? Obama owns em now, wouldn't you say? Didn't he campaign on bringing the troops home during his first year in office? Didn't he just get us involved in yet another war in Lybia?
Ahem! jj, I think you only read what you want to read. You take ONE line from my post and make a book in rebuttal.
ReplyDeletePerhaps I should copy/paste the full import of my post.
"'So that's the republican answer?'
This is serious. No longer Democrat or Republican.
I suppose I could answer your question with a question.
What's the Democrat answer?"
In NO way was I taking Republican or Democrat sides.
Again:"...No longer Democrat or Republican."
How you got your "rant" outta that...IDK
Sheesh!
far as the wars are concerned, can we stop blaming Bush for those yet?
ReplyDelete>>
I did not blame bush.
he started and the other side got in power and didn't finish it, so . both sides are equally guilty. Actually i guess bush didnt really started because he had to have congress approval.
>>
but the main point is your idea of the role of government.
I dont want that kind of government or that kind of city, state or country.
I think recent elections, even the one in ark city, showed that most people do not want that type of barren-ness either.
LOL...
ReplyDeleteThe recent election in A.C. showed is that about 90% of the people don't give a rat's a$$.
D.Q.
You always twist what I say. I don't know why I even bother. It's almost like you read what I say, and then interpret it to say what you want it to. (reminds me of another subject, but I digress)
ReplyDeleteBut, just for clarity's sake, I never said I wanted barren-ness, if that is really even a word (isn't that the hot chick on G.I. Joe?). I said I wanted government to stop wasting money on stupid pet projects that are unneeded and wasteful, during these hard economic times. Such as seeing the effects of cocaine on monkeys, just for example, which was part of the last stimulous bill. What the people of AC voted for (the few who did.. myself included) was a council that will be progressive in bringing in private business, not government involvement in people's lives. I think the national November elections spoke volumes to that subject though. The American people spoke loud and clear. And what they said was: If you're in a hole, stop digging.
"...almost like you read what I say, and then interpret it to say what you want it to...."
ReplyDeleteas I said: jj reads what jj wants to read and jj hears what jj wants to hear.
think recent elections, even the one in ark city, showed that most people do not want that type of barren-ness either.
ReplyDeleteI think it will be interesting to see how the new Comisssioners see progress!
Will they bow to the wishes of people like ACI who want to continue to leverage the taxpayer?
I rencetly heard that about a week ago the Ark City hospital had something like 16 patients and Winfield had 4. (Now I don't know the in- patient or patient as related to those figures!
Nor do I know the out patient services as compared to both hospitals.)
But I have to wonder if thats sufficient to support the "Field of Dreams" they have planned?
I certainly agree with "GROWTH" and for the whole area! I just wonder "WHY" the emphasis is on leveraging the "Taxpayer" to get ahead. Not on building and rebuilding the things that can actually support "GROWTH"!
I looked at the website for the allocation of stimulus funds to the area. (I kind of looked around in my spare time or when I was in the areas to try and see those projects!)
There were several that went to Cowley College even one to Winfield Housing Authority! (They built two storm shelters for their tenants $80-90,000. I had to laugh and wonder if you have to have a HUD pass to get in during a storm?
That stimulus money went to pet projects for mainly Government agencies! I guess you have to belong to their "CLUB". (Shovel ready projects that shovled that money to Government programs and Departments.)
Btw: The hike bike trail isn't a major factor in supporting Growth - at its best it might attract outsiders to visit - it won't make them want to apply for a job or buy a house!
You said "only" the necessities... that sounds pretty barren to me.
ReplyDeleteonly the basics.
just saying i dont see it that way and i dont think most americans do either.
You said "only" the necessities... that sounds pretty barren to me.
ReplyDeleteonly the basics.
Maybe they meant to say "Core Services"?
Because that is the "role" of Governments Federal/State/and Local - not to be a "do all or be all" for everyone!
Because that is the "role" of Governments Federal/State/and Local - not to be a "do all or be all" for everyone!
ReplyDelete>>
But you say that if govt does anything that might help anyone, or provide anything that is nice for the public.
ANYTHING, One thing, is thrown into that group.
i dont agree, and i dont think most americans agree..
Doing SOME things is not a be-all and do-all.
building pubilc parks and such is a good use of govt. funds.
ANYTHING, One thing, is thrown into that group.
ReplyDeletei dont agree, and i dont think most americans agree.
I don't really care if we agree!
Government has conveniently replaced - The Parents, The Churches, and quite a few other of Societies morals, responsibilites and obligations!
That's not what our Government was intented to do! (On the other hand Socialism and Communism do those things!)
That's not what our Government was intented to do! (On the other hand Socialism and Communism do those things!)
ReplyDelete>>
The constitution says, BY the people, FOR the people ....
also, majority rules in a democracy. I know you will say we are a republic, but our form of govt is democracy.
the citizens own the government, it should do whatever we want it do.
"But you say that if govt does anything that might help anyone, or provide anything that is nice for the public.
ReplyDeleteANYTHING, One thing, is thrown into that group.
i dont agree, and i dont think most americans agree."
Well then you Sir, are selfish. You want government to provide for your happiness and well being with a bike path and pretty sidewalks, etc etc when what they should be doing it digging us out of the hole they have made. And if the have to tighten the belt a little to get it done, then by god do it already.
And I never said the government should not provide things to help people, just the unnecessary pork they ram through all the time. I understand the need for social programs, even though I know that selfish people take advantage of them.
"Ask Not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." -JFK
"Ask not how monkeys act when stoned, but how congressmen and women act when working only toward their own re-election." -Tom Sawyer
http://coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=a7e82141-1a9e-4eec-b160-6a8e62427efb
ReplyDeleteMore wasteful spending in the stimulus bill
http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/dean-clancy/a-tale-of-three-budget-plans-or-a-picture-is-worth
ReplyDeletethe citizens own the government, it should do whatever we want it do.
ReplyDeleteJJ,
It's not doing what the citizens say it should do!
The majority of American citizens DON'T agree with the OPEN BORDERS and ILLEGAL Immigration!
The majority of Citizens don't agree with the FRAUD that exists in many areas of Government!
(like Social Security and medicare!)
The majority of Citizens don't agree with corrupt officials - who do things like insider trading in the stock market - shorting when they see the early stages of the economic downturn - enriching themselves and even their aids and getting away with it!
The majority of citizens don't agree with kick backs awarded to Public Officials from Lobbyist which maybe legal or illegal.
The majority of Citizens don't agree with allowing Public Officials or anyone else to dodge their taxes! (Especially when and where the penalties aren't administered or enforced equally!)
The majority of Citizens don't agree that Congress and their aids should be entitled to a different set of Healthcare Plans or Options then they can get - and are forced to accept Obamacare!)
Nor, do the majortiy of citizens agree with the retirement plans that are provided for Public employees!
You want me to keep going ...........!
Tell me again "We live in a Democracy (Republic) where the Goverments) does) what the majority WANT!
(It's getting close with that 47% who are drawing on some type of Government Program!)
But even alot of the 47% don't agree with the things the Elected and Appointed Public Officials are doing at all the levels of Government!
Side note: Then lets don't forget those Judges who are making the rules and interpreting laws regardless of what the Leaders or Citizens really want from Government!
I really don't think we live in the same World or see things the same way!
I don't think JJ lives in the same world that ANYONE does.
ReplyDeletethose are all things we can do something about... instead of getting all freaked out about birth certificates and the alleged role of government.
ReplyDeletecitizens have shown though, that they do not want the role of govt to be severely limited as you do ....
there are things you could do :)
But the people DO want smaller government. That's why the Tea party is as big as it is. That's why more conservative were voted in last November. Conservatives make up the majority in this country by a large margin.
ReplyDeleteThe majority of Americans were against passing Obamacare. The majority of Americans are against putting a mosque at ground zero. The majority of Americans agree with Arizona's immigration law. And guess what the Obama administration has done in all of those cases. They have gone against the will of the people. That's why he will be a one term President.
@1241
ReplyDeleteThe majority of people are morons, that's why we have the electoral college. Ever take a poli sci class? Citizens are referred to by leaders as rabble. This goes all the way back to the founders. Certain measures are in place for certain reasons. The main reason is...most people are not very smart.
This country was bought and paid for long ago my delusional friends. Nothing matters. Politics is...well, what all those quotes by smart people say it is. War w/o bloodshed, local, the art of the impossible, the art of compromise, perception, putting people under obligation to you, etc, etc.
8:43,
ReplyDeleteThe majority matters. I'm fully aware that stupid people sometimes sway an election by voting for someone based on stupid reasons. We saw that when Obama was elected. I think you misunderstand the electoral college. The electoral college takes the majority and simplifies it, it doesn't discount it. It was put in place because not everyone's vote could be taken or counted accurately. I myself don't believe the electoral college has a place in today's society, where every vote can be counted. I expect we will see the end of it in my lifetime.
Sorry to pop your bubble. PoliSci major and realist here. Your third sentence shows all anyone needs to know about the breadth of your knowledge. I give you an unbiased, frank view on politics in general and the state of our citizenry and you go all pub rhetoric. Many states do not require the electors to go with the popular vote.
ReplyDeleteBut - that wasn't the point, it was an example. The point was the majority aren't always capable of making sound, informed decisions. Whether it is because of Maddow or Limbeckreilly, most simply don't know. A valid debate point on politics cannot include "well, the majority of people feel..." - it just can't. There are many considerations for this in place - electoral college was simply an example.
Pop my bubble?
ReplyDeleteSo, what you're saying is that the people (or rabble, as you said earlier) are too stupid to govern themselves, so you smart liberal types should do it for them (us)? You would have us throw out the democratic process and just let a few decide for the many?
I think that's been done. They called it COMMUNISM. Any Political Science major worth her salt could tell you that.
It will be interesting to see if your world view changes when you have been out here in the real world with all us rabble for a few years. Being Taxed into oblivion so the government can pass insane spending bills to help people who won't lift a finger to help themselves, all the while allowing illegal immigrants to come here with no fear of being caught so they can steal your job.
And my third sentence was right on the money. Obama was elected by stupid people. I guess ignorant would be more accurate. And a LOT of people voted for him simply because it was time to put a black man in the white house. I admit to feeling a little of that myself, but his Far left policies and radical agenda were obvious for anyone who was paying attention.
You said "I give you an unbiased, frank view on politics in general and the state of our citizenry and you go all pub rhetoric."
ReplyDeleteBut before that you had said:
"This country was bought and paid for long ago my delusional friends."
That's your idea of unbiased? You should apply at MSNBC. You'd fit right in.
"A valid debate point on politics cannot include "well, the majority of people feel..." - it just can't."
I guess you must have been gone that day in polisci when they read "GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE."
allow me to help:
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html
I guarantee you I have seen more of the real world in my life than you.
ReplyDeleteI don't get the MSNBC reference, but I do understand your confusion with the whole "By the people" phrase.
I don't expect you to change your ideals, ma'am, it's good to have faith in things. Reality can be very harsh and unsettling. Should you accept it, these things won't bother you nearly as much.
Finally, your opening paragraph shows your ignorance (calm down, sis. I'm not calling you ignorant, it means you're not knowledgable of the facts). You ACTUALLY believe the democratic process is flawless and a few DON'T decide for the many? Really? I think that's cute. A breath of fresh air, really.
ReplyDeleteOh no, I am fully aware of how it works under this administration, but I also know how it SHOULD work. Most administrations try to govern by the will of the people, unlike your messiah Obama. I am beginning to buy into the idea that he never had any intention of getting a second term; just doing as much damage as he could with his first.
ReplyDeleteAnd I never said the democratic process was flawless, but it is certainly better than the socialist government you and your comrades have in mind.
I still don't see you offering any facts as to why your way is better. Just more hit and run.
Please, extol on us the virtues of Socialism.
"I guarantee you I have seen more of the real world in my life than you."
ReplyDeleteReally? Because you know so much about me?
Here, let me help you out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_sawyer
Again with the rwnj rhetoric. I never called him a messiah, I do not support a socialist regime. In fact, I voted Red until given a choice between McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden. I'm still registered Rep. Only in light of the recent huge shift to the right have I distanced myself from the party. I'm actually very moderate in my political party affiliation.
ReplyDeleteWhy would I wiki Tom Sawyer? I know all about Tom Sawyer. Are you implying you are Tom? That would actually be the most sensible thing I've ever heard you say.
I assume, from your ideas and tone and style you are about a mid-30's housewife. I am a 60 something VFW. Thus my assumption, nay, assertion I am far more worldly and learned than you.
Well, you would be mistaken about both my sex and my age, and my experiences. The Tom Sawyer link was a joke, obviously, speaking to my point about you knowing nothing about me.
ReplyDeleteMy question is how can you be a veteran who has lived sixty plus years, and not see that this country is headed to hell in a hand basket? How can you agree with what the Obama administartion is doing, making our country so indebted to China? Do you realize that we are on track to being replaced by China as the world superpower in 2016? How can you have lived through good presidents such as Reagan, and think Obama is doing what is right for this country?
If you are truly a veteran of a foreign war, then I thank you for your service, but I think what the progressives are doing to this country is horrible, and you defending them is just as horrible.
I wish you would pick a screen name so I know if it's you I am debating.