This week is make or break week in Washington, concerning the health bill.
You all know that I generally think reform is a good idea, and that health care should be extended to all Americans regardless of ability to pay.
Of course, politics is involved, and that makes it much more complicated.
Ive said for awhile that reforming insurance - which seems to be what is being done now - is not what would make the most sense.
Anyways, here is a story from the Drudge Report, which I thought was interesting.
Its more about the politics involved.
The whole debate has done nothing but make my cynical attitude toward government even stronger. The only real difference is that I don't think the Republicans would be any better at all if they were in power.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/lessons_from_the_medicare_pres.html
ReplyDeleteNext time the GOP whines about reconciliation, remind them of the unprecedented manner which they passed the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit bill: extend a 15-minute vote for 3 hours while they bribed and strong-armed dissenters.
It is rather laughable that either party would complain about the other side using legal tactics - no matter how dirty - to win a political battle.
ReplyDeleteJust more politics as usual.
Look how many bribes, kickbacks, threats, and backroom deals it has taken just to get to this level. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THIS BILL.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Yeah, Yeah,..If the rest of the states have to pay Medicare, then so should NE. Why should LA get $300 million while KS, CA, & IL sink? Why should the seniors in FL get $$$? We have lots of seniors in KS who need help. Everybody knows mostly rich retirees live in FL anyway. Just too bad the rest of the Congressmen ( & women) were too weak to stand for the same payoffs. WEAK, WEAK, WEAK,. I'd tell them, "If you want my vote, you got to pay for it!!!" Tow the party line my **s These things alone make me want to bring up. bleech!! (upchucking)
ReplyDeleteD.Q.
JJ, it seems as though you want your cake and eat it too. I mean you say you are so cynical of politics, but you want them to tax you more for health care. This means bigger government, and bigger government means a bigger door for corruption.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that the healthcare debate involves only the insurance companies. It is so easy to paint them as the bad guys.
How about hospitals?
How about forceps manufacturers?
How about doctors?
How about medical centers?
How about nurses?
How about MRI manufacturers?
They all get a free pass to raise rates at will? But the insurance company paying for it, doesn't stand a chance.
Ask yourself why we have never questioned the doctors rates? Do we even ask what a doctors rates are before our exams or procedures?
This "obamacare" is 2074 stinky pages of cockamamie bullshit.
Not only that, but it's cockamamie bullsh!t that we will be paying higher taxes on for the next four years before we see any benefits from it. THAT is how they plan to keep the first ten years cost under a Trillion dollars. They will tax us for the first four out of ten years to cover the extra money they will need to run it for the next six. What about the following ten years when that cushion is gone you might ask? that's when the rationing and the Doctors rate cuts begin. Pretty soon the government will only allow you so much healthcare per year, or lifetime, and if you go over that you are sh!t out of luck. And you will also see procedures that could prolong the lives of terminally ill patients denied because they are cost prohibitive.
ReplyDeletePretty soon the government will only allow you so much healthcare per year, or lifetime, and if you go over that you are sh!t out of luck. And you will also see procedures that could prolong the lives of terminally ill patients denied because they are cost prohibitive.
ReplyDelete>>>>>>>>>>>>
Insurance companies do that now, based on profit margin.
Why is that ok?
House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it
ReplyDeletehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/15/AR2010031503742_pf.html
The following was pulled from the above article:
"The House would vote on a more popular package of fixes to the Senate bill; under the House rule for that vote, passage would signify that lawmakers "deem" the health-care bill to be passed.
The tactic -- known as a "self-executing rule" or a "deem and pass" -- has been commonly used, although never to pass legislation as momentous as the $875 billion health-care bill. It is one of three options that Pelosi said she is considering for a late-week House vote, but she added that she prefers it because it would politically protect lawmakers who are reluctant to publicly support the measure."
I just love how open they are with their corruption. The statement of choice seems to be "cockamamie bullsh!t". Well put.
Insurance companies do that now, based on profit margin.
ReplyDeleteWhy is that ok?
You realy don't think that Government Policy and Programs already have any effect on the way the system works TODAY? Do you? (Medicare - Medicaid - SSI - Wick - County Health dept. on and on ...)
Then you think their plan to further control the healthcare market won't have any effect on
that Industry? (To reduce costs and determine availability of procedures and who qualifies.)
I just heard of someone who is going to Mexico to get all their teeth capped at a fraction of what it would cost in the U.S!
In the end it will be just one more industry that got exported! For those who can afford those services!
And
Maybe even paid for by Insurance!
Then
The rest will be at the mercy of BIG G!
Don't think it couldn't happen!
@7:56
ReplyDeleteThose are questions I ask all the time.
Where does it stop?
We get a cost of living raise, healthcare costs go up....
The Dr's office?
The Hospital?
The Hospital Pharmacy...?
Since when would anyone pay more than $1 for 2 tylenol? What does the hospital charge per/tylenol?( I guarantee you, it's more than a dollar)
Arsenio Hall used to say, "things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmm"
What you don't grasp is all the extra crap that is in this bill that has nothing to do with making your rates cheaper. There are kickbacks to Democratic holdouts to the tune of billins of dollars.
ReplyDeleteThe American people want REFORM to help get insurance companies and medical costs under control, but they do not want this bill as it is now. They don't want their tax dollars to pay for abortions. They do not want preferential treatment to different states simply because their representatives had to be bribed to vote yes, etc etc.
The Dems could stop this and start over with true bi-partisan ideas to lower insurance rates and keep medical costs down, but they refuse. They have put too much stake in this atrocious bill, and they will ram in down the throats of us all, whethere we want it or not, knowing that they will probably lose their job as a result. They do this because they want a radical change toward socialism and control, and they are willing to fall on their swords to get it. Knowing that once it is passed, it will be very hard to repeal. Obama has foolishly put all his eggs in this one rickety basket, and now he is too egotistic to let go of it and start over on a decent bill.
Way back obama did offer, the republicans were not interested.
ReplyDeleteHe offered again recently, and republicans were again not interested.
I do understand you dont want this bill. I am not convinced the majority of americans do not want it. but i would imagine nearly half do not.
The problem I have, is that I doubt repubublicans or conservatives would like ANY bill that ANYONE came up with.
Why should we belive republicans would work on a new bill now, when they wouldnt even talk before?
Obama has foolishly put all his eggs in this one rickety basket, and now he is too egotistic to let go of it and start over on a decent bill.
ReplyDeleteWell don't forget Pelosi and gang in that deal!
Obama was just a convenient Tool! To get their Socialistic agendas advanced!
The sad thing is that of all times in history when we need leadership that can advance us into the future? Make us a viable competitior nd keep US a World Leader.
We get leadership that wants to set us back years! Through programs that redistribute wealth, lack accountability, and then place undue burden on future generations!
This could be a crutial period in time for the U.S. One where we stand still or recede and the rest of the world advances!
One where we got beaten by our own FAILED POLICIES and PROGRAMS!
@8:10
ReplyDeleteSomeone is here defending the health care bill?
Wow!
(You do know that odiferous smell is the pile of bullsh!t you are standing in?!?)
Way back obama did offer, the republicans were not interested.
ReplyDeleteHe offered again recently, and republicans were again not interested.
C'mon he was reading the telepromter! He didn't really mean it!
Just a political tactic to try and show the other party was unwilling to accept his or Nancy's plan!
Kind of like:
We know best ...
AND
Where's the Love?????????????
@8:10 a.m. "I am not convinced the majority of americans do not want it." ---What rock you been hiding under? I guess you been listening to MSLSD, or CNN, A.C. Traveler, etc. Try google instead. Too bad that the "so-called" media has been simply a willing accomplice & extra arm of the White House. They were supposed to report the news, investigate, challenge, ask hard questions, etc. not just rubber stamp "press releases". Too bad. Oh well, we can read. And thanks to the internet we can research for ourselves. It's also notable that this is an open forum & we are all anonymous (ceptin' jj) and almost all the posts are against this.
ReplyDeleteD.Q.
"I am not convinced the majority of americans do not want it."
ReplyDelete---- WHEN IN DOUBT, GOOGLE IT! -----------
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform
From the article:
"A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 43% favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats, while 53% oppose it. Those findings include 23% who Strongly Favor the plan and 46% who Strongly Oppose it.
Democrats continue to overwhelmingly support the plan, while Republicans and voters not affiliated with either party strongly oppose it.
Opposition continues to stem in part from unchanging views that the plan will drive up the cost and worsen the quality of health care in America. Fifty-seven percent (57%) of voters also believe the health care reform plan now working its way through Congress will hurt the U.S. economy."
I believe that many who favor this bill are people who do not, for whatever reason, have health insurance, or they look at it as helping those less fortunate. What they do not realize is the massive amount of control and the percentage of our economy that we would be handing over to the federal government. Not to mention the kickbacks and bribes our tax money will be buying. Not to mention the fact that our tax money will be paying for the killing of innocent babies.
Obama, Pelosi, Reid and company want CONTROL! That is what this boils down too. A socialized society. A marxist society. This is the first step.
Guess it depends on how you google :)
ReplyDeleteHere are poll results that show otherwise.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/08/05/cnn-poll-americans-split-on-obamas-health-care-proposals/?fbid=siywcQAbEF0
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/do_americans_oppose_health-car.html
Seems to me the country is split along political lines, more than issue lines here.
This is not about health care reform, its about politics as usual it seems.
@1:05
ReplyDeleteSo true. Gop's have always, and will always be very narrow minded. SG - how about some citation (non-wingnut, please) about the exact extra crap and exact kickbacks. Try to stay away from those sites on your favorites - try a .gov domain. Also, try do do it without falling back on your "socialism - Marxism - commie" rhetoric...we get it.
The first link: CNN (The Clinton News Network)says 50% for 45% against.
ReplyDeleteThe second link to the liberal Washington Post (who favors government healthcare)shows 45% for the bill and 48% against it. 7% had no opinion.
I will trust the the Rasmussen poll. 53% against 43% in favor. It was a national survey. Those findings include 23% who Strongly Favor the plan and 46% who Strongly Oppose it.
@ 1:25,
ReplyDeleteIf you haven't been paying attention, I don't have time to bring you up to speed. Abortion payed for by taxpayers is in the bill. Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) has said at least a dozen Democrats would vote against the Senate bill unless it’s amended to include the House language barring federal funding of abortion. And it won’t be.
Try googling the "cornhusker kickback" that Ben Nelson received. Then last week Obama said he was going to take it away after getting the yes vote he bought with it (my dear old granny used to call that an indian giver!). Then, a few days later, they say it will remain in the bill. Then google the "Louisianna purchase" (not the historic one).
Then google "Marxism" and "Socialism" and see what your messiah is after. Idiots like you would gladly turn over your freedom for a few dollars and a pat on the head. I would prefer to keep mine.
If this thing were really good for the country, I don't think they would be having to pull all these stunts to get it passed. All the shady dealings, late night, behind closed door meetings and bribes stink of corruption. What happened to the transparency Obama promised?
ReplyDeleteWell you need to go back only one day and hear the news that this year the Social Security and Medicare trust fund will spend more than it receives in revenue!
ReplyDeleteThe Federal Government owes this trust fund $2.5 trillion!
That kind of incentive to contol the spending on those programs is most likely what they want to do to prevent paying all that back in benefits to Seniors!
Let's see they get control through abortion of the beginning of life. Then they will have the power to determine who gets the needed care or survives at the end of life!
Sweet!
The really best part is still when Pelosi says: "Your gonna have to vote for it and pass it to see whats really in the bill."
How can anyone take these people serious?
We need to -
Buy them a ONE WAY ticket to the Socialist Country of their CHOICE!
@1:05 p.m. your 1st link is almost a year old. :( Your 2nd link states that most are against it. Seems like the writer Ezra is in favor of it, but, he makes no mention of the Medicare cuts ($500Billion) that will have to be made up by the States.
ReplyDelete@1:25 p.m. call it narrow minded, make fun. You don't need any "citations", unless you been on a desert island the last 6 months. (See my earlier posts in this thread, they're there if you care to read) Not on anyone's "favorite" sites, it is public knowledge.
D.Q.
The latest: Now they want to pass it without a vote. "deem" it as passed.
ReplyDeleteWhere does it all end? With a year of a super-majority and couldn't agree among themselves to do it, now they try desperately against the will of the people...
"But I like it," she said, "because people don't have to vote on the Senate bill." -Nancy Pelosi
http://www.ablueview.com/2010/03/house-may-pass-senate-bill-without-voting-on-it-really.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+typepad%2Fkloris%2Fmy_weblog+%28A+Blue+View%29
Our only hope is that Barney Frank will jump in bed with Nancy Pelosi!
ReplyDeleteBut, Barney better watchout cause Nancy has been known to improvise!
Well Barney shes doing it to US!
@1:25 That must be one big pile of bullsh!t you are living under to not have heard of all the kickbacks. Seriously? Do you need citations to find your ass or are both hands sufficient?
ReplyDeleteI heard one of the Democrats saying this morning that health care is a RIGHT of the American people. I disagree. The Bill of Rights does not owe us anything. The Bill of Rights gives us the freedom to do things, and makes it a right to do them, yet what it does not do is GIVE us anything of value paid for by the tax payers.
ReplyDeleteLets take a look at a few of our RIGHTS:
Freedom of Speech does not make the government provide us with the instruments to make free speech, such as a microphone, or paper and pencil, or a computer, so that we might express ourselves as I am doing right now.
Freedom of religion does not make the government provide us with churches, or bibles, or communion wafers.
The RIGHT to bear arms does not make the government hand out rifles and ammo.
You see, here is where the difference lies between modern liberals and our founding fathers. Liberals always want something for nothing. Our founding fathers sought to give us the freedom to work for what we want. Maybe you've heard of "the pursuit of happiness". We will have to change it to the "handout of happiness" before long if Obama and Pelosi and crew have their way.
Hi SG. this might be a good topic for a new post?
ReplyDeleteI just wonder, if we were trying to create an interstate highway system today. would conservatives oppose it?
The constitution does not guarantee a right to drive from state to state with ease? or for individual companies to move their freight without paying for it.
WHy should tax payers pay for companies to be able to move their products?
Why should states have to cede property to allow an interstate system when this is not guaranteed in the constitution?
Were people not expecting something for nothing by wanting to be able to drive on a highway they had not paid for?
I really doubt a national interstate highway system would pass today without republicans and conservatives having a cow :)
So how is healthcare different ?
Please tell me where this Interstate highway is that you don't have to pay to drive on, because I really hate paying tolls.
ReplyDeleteApples and oranges. I do wonder if social security would pass today though. But even with Social security, the person receiving benefits has paid into it for their whole career. With healthcare you want something for nothing. Face it, that's what it amounts to. Begging the federal government to take care of you because you can't take care of yourself. What's the difference between that and sitting on the street with a tin cup?
I really dont think its apples and oranges at all.
ReplyDeleteEven people receiving benefits pay taxes to some extent.
I think government should do the right thing, and the right thing is providing health care for everyone.
How a government treats poor people is the real measure of its morality i think.
That aught to get people going :)
*chuckle* I'm not Googling anything. If you're going to make a claim, back it up. Otherwise, you're just another p'd off GOP who won't be happy with anything until at least 2016. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just show me where you get your claims.
ReplyDeletewhat a goofball...you want to have an intelligent discussion or just argue?
ReplyDeleteHow a government treats poor people is the real measure of its morality i think.
ReplyDeleteGee, you'd think welfare was a good deal! It is a system that creates perpetuates a Sub-class of citizens!
Most can't escape its grip and there are no incentives that reward responsibility or provide for any other alternative!
In alot of cases the ability to get ahead is diminished by the posibility of losing what they have if income increases!
Then there is the part of being paid for having kids - regardless if there is another supportive Adult/parent. (But now with the new bill we can abort the fetus!)
Tell me again how Government creates and treats the poor!
Through programs that create them and hold them in bondage!
These problems simply didn't exist to the extent they do today! Because in the past people were held responsible for their actions by Society!
Now we leave it up to the Government!
Which I think is really what S.G. is trying to say!
Comparing the interstate highway system to government healthcare is absolutely apples and oranges. You see, when my tax money is used to build a road, I benefit from using said road. When my tax money is used to fund abortions for lazy murderers, I get nothing from that. In fact, I totally disagree with that, but I am powerless because the power lies in the government's hands now.
ReplyDeleteAn argument I have heard is that the government mandates car insurance, so why not health insurance? The answer to that is I can choose not to own a car! Government doesn't mandate me owning a car or paying a fine for not owning one, as it will for insurance. My choice is taken away completely. That should mean something to the pro choicers out there, but I guess the whole notion of personal choice is only important when it comes to murdering their babies.
Healthcare is not a right, it's something you have to work for. What's next in the whole entitlement argument? Is everyone entitled to a house? a car? a computer? Where does this sense of entitlement come from? I was always taught to work hard if I wanted the good things in life, but also that money can't buy happiness. I can choose to work hard and have cool stuff, or I can choose to work a job that pays less and gives me plenty of free time to spend with my family. Whichever I choose, I don't expect the government to pay my way.
The point is having a choice.
An argument I have heard is that the government mandates car insurance, so why not health insurance? The answer to that is I can choose not to own a car! Government doesn't mandate me owning a car or paying a fine for not owning one, as it will for insurance. My choice is taken away completely.
ReplyDeleteWhile I understand your position, I think the mantality that Government will/should provide healthcare actually contributes to the desire of people not to buy it themselves!
Do you remember?
When healthcare was a relative non-issiue for Society!
It was cheap enough that about all employers provided it regardless of their size!
Then the deductables were 80/20 not 60/40 and now 20/80!
But the pool of people paying into those progarms and policies has shrunk! While the number of people on Government programs has grown! (Medicare, Medicaid, SSI, etc.)
Why would young people want to buy insurance when they don't get married, then have kids, and still live together and get State and Federal benefits plus healthcare! (at the very least for their kids.)
Sorry, but they have told me how they can work the system!
So, it is important that there is healthcare
options available for a levels of income! So they can participate! (Maybe not madatory - but cheap enough so they can afford it!)
The problem is that Healthcare providers and insurance companies can't compete against the Government run programs that exist NOW!
They have basically created A FAILED SYSTEM of Private Sector competiton through Gov. run programs and regulations!
So, their (Government) answer is to just take over healthcare!
AND
America's future of Free Enterprise, with fair competition in healthcare, hangs in the Balance!
I really dont think the future of free enterprise hangs in the balance. Im sure they said that about public education, social security and all the rest.
ReplyDeleteHere is the thing. There is no competition now. Insurance companies are exempt from monopoly laws and they are fighting tooth and nail to keep that.
Why do you think that is?
The government is just trying to reign them in a bit, which is what needs to be done when capitalism gets out of hand.
They have no competition now, there is no free enterprise now. Adding a bit of competition might just be a good thing.
They have no competition now, there is no free enterprise now.
ReplyDeleteWell at least not any from the Private Sector!
The incentive is to get on Government Programs! (Gee, what's their answer?)
Except, to qualify in many cases for those programs you have to meet those income levels!
AND
The Government(s) has made and supported those regulations that apply to any competition!
(You just can't see how the States and Federal Governments have corrupted the system!)
Gee, if I can get my kid diagnosed with ADD or ADHD and my income is low enough! I can qualify for SSI! A monthly check! I don't know now but it used to be $609.00/mo. tax free!
ReplyDeleteRemember the post about the U.S. uses 90% of the World's Ritalin!
Then if we tack on AFDC and a few others?
Cover them with a healthcard?
and on and on ............!
So, you would have a nanny state? The reason lazy people work the system to get welfare is because it is no longer looked down on as it once was. My pride would not allow it. The more you give, the more you will have the people who would take advantage of it lining up to do so.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you keep saying there is no competition in the private sector insurance? There is more than one insurance company, is there not?! Do you think if there was a true monopoly, where only one company offered health insurance, that the rates would not be much higher than they are now? Besides, the evil billionaires at the insurance companies are bringing in a whopping 3% profit as it is. Obama wants you to believe they are the devil incarnate. Look beyond his message to the real reason he wants you beholden to the government. Suckling at the government teet.. POWER! He gets re-elected if more people are beholden to him.
So, answer the question Why can't insurance companies compete across State Lines NOW!
ReplyDelete(Or for that matter where ever they want?)
Why isn't there a bunch of smaller companies competeing for those Healthcare Dollars?
Obama knows the answer - he just doesn't want you to figure it out!
Your 'cynical attitude toward government' is not at all apparent in the way you cover the local government!! You allow them to hood wink you on every issue to the point that you buy into them heartily
ReplyDelete