I just saw the news that abortion provider George Tiller has been shot to death.
He was shot as he entered his church just after 10 a.m. this morning.
Here is a link to the story in the Wichita Eagle.
http://www.kansas.com/topstories/story/833730.html
Police are looking for a while male in his 60s. They have a tag number and a vehicle id. They are not saying if they have the shooter in custody.
I feel this deserves some comment.
This should not be made into a political event. This was the act of a sick person. I don't know of any Christians who could condone such an act. There are plenty of political people who would however.
Sometimes its hard to tell the difference between a bible-centered political world view and conservative politics, but here we see the difference.
I don't know if the shooter will claim to be Christian or not, but one thing is clear, his actions were not Christian.
Murder is never the correct response, no matter what you believe about abortion.
The right to protest is a fundamental American right. I would hate to see this act used as a means of silencing protesters.
There are political games here to be played by both sides. Let's just not allow ourselves to be taken in by either side.
This is a tragic event. Murder is wrong. Political games that may follow will be wrong too.
Pray for the Tiller family in their time of loss.
I am glad he is dead.
ReplyDeleteThis is so weird. Christians will not take responsibility. They protest and protest and protest, then when someone is killed they just don't realize that they helped create the circumstances of the death. Many people are easily manipulated. Spirit One and Summit Church in Wichita are two of the worst. First Baptist and the Family Life joke on main street is in the group too. Christians need to think hard, be held accountable, and try to factor in empathy next time they act with protest of someone.
ReplyDeleteSince when is murder not Christian? How about the crusades? Christianity is all about killing those who don't agree with you.
ReplyDeleteEven the beloved Moses was not above a little murder, as long as no one was watching.
EXODUS 2:11
And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.
2:12 And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
I just clicked around to some other blogs on Kansas politics and news. So many are so happy about this. This is crazy. I need to move to the coast soon, maybe Canada. I am going to get off the computer now and try to have a decent rest of the day. I think my days of reading blogs are ending. Sick, sick, sick Kansas.
ReplyDeleteKansas doctor George Tiller killed today!
ReplyDeleteWICHITA, Kansas - Media reports say that abortion provider Dr. George Tiller has been shot and killed at his Wichita church. Tiller has been among the few U.S. physicians performing late-term abortion. His clinic has repeatedly been the site of protests for about two decades. He was acquitted in March of misdemeanor charges stemming from procedures he performed, but moments after the verdict the state’s medical board announced it was investigating allegations against him that are nearly identical to those the jury had rejected.
The video from the scene:Dr. George Tiller-video
I think in his own mind Dr. Tiller was doing a service maybe even a self appointed mission for mankind.
ReplyDeleteBut, not too long ago I saw Rick Warren on Larry King Live and also follow his website the Purpose driven connection. One of the things he presented on Larry King was his intent to use his church/congregation to empty the orphanages in California through adoption. Also a plan to save orphans in Africa left from the ravages of AIDS.
What I said? It can't be done! Recently a close reltive in Kansas City said their church was doing something similar.
God doesn't work on mans scale or time line. He has a plan often unlike those we choose to follow. He can make a way where there are no others.
God still loved George Tiller!
Thats the most reasonable response i've seen today.
ReplyDeleteAndrew Sullivan labeled the attack "the culmination of a campaign of domestic terrorism" and wrote that "Christianist terrorism is no more defensible than Islamist terrorism."
ReplyDeleteAre you going to Tim's party tonight JJ?
ReplyDeleteHave you ever seen the write ups on Tiller's clinic? Or the pictures he takes where he poses the dead baby he aborted with the mother and sometimes the father? After the baby, that these selfish people didn't want, gets murdered by him, he takes a "family picture" with the mother holding the baby she just had killed.
ReplyDeleteSICK SICK SICK. The man is where he deserves to be.
When I heard that Dr. Tiller was murdered today I was shocked and saddened. I just don't understand how anyone can justify killing someone over the Abortion issue. You can have your opinion, But to walk into God's home and decide what YOU think is right above God's law, And to take it into your hands makes you a weak person. He did this for the innocent kids that are aborted, Right? What about the innocent kids who witnessed the shooting. Oh and to the people who are glad he is dead- Remember, Your God saw what you typed.
ReplyDelete$50 bucks says Fred Phelps' goons are at the funeral. Some of you would fit right in.
ReplyDeleteRight wing terrorist!!! That's what it boils down to! Pro-life? Right, When they pick and choose. !
ReplyDeleteThe KILLER made sure that we knew what he stood for, But made it meaningless when he pulled the trigger! Domestic ring wing terrorism must stop!
ReplyDeleteThis man was unfairly harrassed and attacked for years for doing his job... A job that was legal!
ReplyDeleteInteresting to me, that nearly all of the comments on here seem to be mean spirited comments against Christians.
ReplyDeleteWhere exactly are all the Christians dancing in the streets over a murder?
Where are these terrorist Christians who are crashing planes into buildings for allah .. oh wait ...
Just look at the comments. It speaks for itself.
That poor man saved hundreds, perhaps thousands of lives, and you nutjobs talk as if he did something horribly wrong.
ReplyDeleteI am speaking of the gunman, of course, not Tiller the Killer.
What kind of church would allow Tiller the baby killer to be in their congregation in the first place. I hope there is a hell so Tiller can rot in the worst part of it. And his family happily helped him spend the blood money he earned from all the murdered babies. I have no sympathy for them, and I most assuredly will not pray for them. This is one funeral I hope the Nutbags from Westborough Baptist Church show up to.
ReplyDeleteLets just start with the 6th commandmant. You shall not murder.(NIV) Tiller or the Gunman. Either way, murder is murder. Hate the sin, but not the sinner. Christ died for all, for we are all sinners. Christ loved us all, even though we are sinners. Roman's 5:8 is a good example "Bug God demonstrates his own love for us in this; while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." The Tiller may have been a christian, the shooter may have been a christian. But they are both still sinners. Christ died for them as much as he has for any individual who has ever lived.
ReplyDeleteWho is this "Bug God" that thou hast spoken of?
ReplyDeleteGood luck finding a jury of twelve that will unanimously convict the gunman of murder. Not in this state.
ReplyDeleteAnd Jesus wept....
ReplyDeleteI am the BUG GOD! Worship me!
ReplyDeleteNow I know who the praying mantis was praying to.
ReplyDelete^ praying mantis hahahahaha lol
ReplyDeleteYou can't murder someone and call yourself pro-life!
ReplyDeleteYou can't murder thousand of babies and call yourself anti-death either.
ReplyDelete^ Ummmm 10:11 .... make some sense, Then get back to me!
ReplyDeleteThe one "hater" on here who posted over and over all of the mishmash about Christians should be embarrassed. Go worship your own god but don't hate those who don't join you.
ReplyDelete"However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence."
ReplyDelete-Obama
Oh, I don't know... I think that this particular heinous act of violence resolved that particular late term abortionist quite nicely. He won't be killing any more babies will he?!
I can't believe some of these hateful comments on here. You people seriously think its ok to gun down someone especially in the house of God? If this guy is calling himself a christen then he is only contradicting himself. Murder in a church, how sick is that, what if someone got caught in a crossfire? Ok all you anti abortionists, what if a child got in the way. Would you be still trying to justify what the guy did?
ReplyDeleteYou people really puzzle me with your extreme views. Is this the kind of thinking we want to teach our future generations? What kind of message is that sending out when we say its ok to kill that man because he did abortions.
He may not be killing anymore babies and lets admit that they are babies, but he should not have been killed by a lone gunman. Vengence is for the Lord not for Man. We are commanded to love even our enemies. As hard as that is to do sometimes.
ReplyDelete"The one hater"... Hmmm I think there is more than one person on here that thinks this was a sick act! By golly gee, I know that you think everyone should agree with you and that it's hard to think that people actually have hearts.. BUT- What happened to him was sad and wrong and against God's law. Your never supposed to take the law into your own hands, And BTW.. Abortions are LEGAL!
ReplyDeleteMusic for the messiah, you are excactly right and that is what I was just thinking about. It is Gods place to pass judgment on this man, not ours and if you are an atheist, then remember this guy that shot tiller broke the law.
ReplyDeleteI'm am very sad that this could happen. And it's sad to see all the radical comments on here for both right and left. I will be sad for him and his family, just as I am for all the babies that have suffered and died at his hands.
ReplyDelete"Your never supposed to take the law into your own hands, And BTW.. Abortions are LEGAL!
ReplyDeleteJune 1, 2009 9:01 AM"
Hitler LEGALLY killed SIX MILLION Jews also. Do you think that was right? Do you think that just because a law is on the books that it is RIGHT and JUST? There have been many dumb and cruel laws throughout the history of this planet, and abortion is one of them.
Did you cry when Hitler took his own life so he wouldn't have to face the oncoming US army? The sick thing is, You probably would have if you had been around then.
Hitler LEGALLY killed SIX MILLION Jews also. Do you think that was right? Do you think that just because a law is on the books that it is RIGHT and JUST? There have been many dumb and cruel laws throughout the history of this planet, and abortion is one of them.
ReplyDeleteDid you cry when Hitler took his own life so he wouldn't have to face the oncoming US army? The sick thing is, You probably would have if you had been around then.
RIGHTWING EXTREMIST AT IT'S BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!
"RIGHTWING EXTREMIST AT IT'S BEST!!!!"
ReplyDeleteI think you mean right wing EXTREMISM, not extremist, but then you are know it all Liberal. Who am I to correct you.
A bold statement, in all caps no less, but no denial... just name calling. It is tough when the facts are to hard to twist isn't it. Then you must resort to name calling and throwing hissy fits. I am picturing you on the living room floor kicking your feet and beating your fists. LOL
For those who said that a revolution was coming - is this what you meant?
ReplyDeleteJust asking.
Floor kicking your feet and beating your fists. ----
ReplyDeleteNah- That's what you did when McCain lost!
So if your blaming all the Christians and 'Right Wingers' for this horrible act of violence do you also think that is who shot JFK too. This is one phsycho and you can't blame innocent people for his doing.
ReplyDeleteByte, I'm starting to wonder if you wanted something like this to happen so you could paint all on the 'Right' or Christians as extremist. What kind of question is that?
I'm not Byte- But I'm jumping in here... Maybe you guys painted your own selfs as extremist when you started spewing your hate around. You guys created this mess when you started to think that your ways to living was what's best- when you guys started putting your nose into others business. All eyes are on you and maybe, just maybe the way you live isn't what's best after all.
ReplyDeleteWhat is that suppose to mean? I think it is sad when you think killing babies is the 'best' way to live. Get over yourself. I'm not an extremist and have never been to an anti-abortion rally. I think the whole things is a mess. And I'm sorry, but someone has to stick up for the innocent and the chilren around the world that don't have a voice to be heard because you are all so excited that you have the right to kill them. I just don't get that attitude.
ReplyDeleteI don't get the attitude that it's okay to kill a living breathing man.
ReplyDeleteITS NOT! We (most of us) are not saying that is ok -- you keep saying that it is ok and it's not.
ReplyDeletecontinued - you keep saying that we say it is ok - but it is not.
ReplyDeletePro-life means pro-life, we are not for the killing of any humans, and it is wrong to summarize all that way. I have never said anything hateful about anyone who has had an abortion, but I am still against it. That doesn't make me a bad person. Why does this have to get so ugly? I see it as a tragedy and the Pro-Choice crowd is trying to capitalize and politicize this mans death. That is sad and about as sick as the man who shot Dr. Tiller.
ReplyDeleteThe left always jumps on the bandwagon and tries to paint a lone assassin as part of a vast right wing conspiracy. The mistake that the gunman made in carrying out his mission was the foresight to see how it would be twisted and used by the baby killers, and how Tiller would become a martyr for the rights of women. The rights of selfish, lazy women who would rather take the life of their own flesh and blood child than to change their lifestyle and be a parent.
ReplyDeleteAnyone on here who is happy that he is dead or anyone who comments (like the very first poster did) is the sick ones. And that's who I'm directing my comments towards. You can't pick who you think should live and die. Why did it have to get so ugly? Because a man lost his life for doing his job, For doing his very legal job. You might not agree with it, But who are any of you to take the "law" so to speak into your own hands. If you think God is against a person preforming abortions then leave it to God to judge the person, Not you. God is supposed to be the judge and jury- NOT YOU! I don't think anyone is trying to capitalize on his death... But people are shocked, Mad and outraged that this can happen, Our men and women die for our freedom... That doesn't mean that you take a gun and blow someone away because you don't agree with what they are doing in life. But there is no doubt a huge problem going on with the extreme right in this country and this is just helps people open their eyes wider to the problem.
ReplyDeleteOh and thanks for claifying that only selfish lazy women have abortions... Hmmm, Who really is the narrowminded person here?
Studies show that less than 1% of women who have abortions do so because of ligitimate reason, such as rape or incest. The overwhelming majority do it because they just don't want the responsibility of raising a child.
ReplyDeleteYes, I call that SELFISH and LAZY!
Let me guess, You got those facts from Operation save america! da da doooooo! Whatever! Just like the one poster said about the couple who posed with the baby that Tiller aborted... You failed to state that they were a MARRIED couple and they aborted for medical reasons. It was their choice- Point blank. Not yours, Or anyone elses for that matter.
ReplyDeleteNo, I posted those facts on these forums one of the lest twelve times we had a discussion on abortion, and they came from a reputable source. I don't remember where right now, and I'm not looking it up for you. But they are real statistics.
ReplyDeleteI can't find the "family photos" online anymore. I can't remember what site I saw those on either, but it was sick. And it wasn't just one "family". They have a photo studio setup in there. That, my friend, is SICK!
"Jesus wept.. for their were no more worlds to conquer!"
ReplyDeleteWhy should choice be limited at all. Why not allow euthanization of children to age five or six.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. Why should birth be the cut off age for "aborting" a child? We know that children inside the womb do everything that babies outside the womb do, with the exception of breathing air. Why not let us take them to the doctor and have him chop them into little pieces any time up until they reach 18?
ReplyDeleteThis would be great leverage in getting my kids to clean their room.
"Alright, I've had it. Get in the car... we're going to Doctor Tiller's. No, I gave you a chance to get that room clean all weekend, and now it's too late. Oh quit crying, it's not like you're a real person or anything. Who cares what your gonna miss out on not being able to live the rest of your life?! I am all that matters, and I am tired of messing with you. You re an inconvenience, and therefore you must die. Say hello to all your other brothers and sisters when you get to heaven."
@ 4:56, 9:57
ReplyDeleteLate term abortions are extremely rare, not elective procedures and account for less then 0.04% of all abortions performed.
It is absolutely inflammatory to compare the death of a living child to that of an nonviable fetus.
@ 2:01
Over 45 million women in the United States have had legal abortions. NONE of those women impregnated themselves.
Misogyny at its finest.
@ 12:38
That is not my intention but I can see how you arrived at that perception. I tend to focus on those who I find extreme. There are many posters who have stated opinions I do not agree with but I DO respect their perspectives.
Byte Daily said:
ReplyDelete"Late term abortions are extremely rare, not elective procedures and account for less then 0.04% of all abortions performed."
Not elective procedures? That is where you are wrong. Tiller was performing late term abortions by getting around the law, having his own mental health people certify that the "mother" was having stress and depression, to justify killing babies very late in the pregnancy. THAT is why he was so hated, and ultimately, why he is so dead.
Now, here are some real statistics. Google "abortion statistics"
ABORTION STATISTICS
UNITED STATES
Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996)
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700
Who's having abortions (age)?
52% of women obtaining abortions in the U.S. are younger than 25: Women aged 20-24 obtain 32% of all abortions; Teenagers obtain 20% and girls under 15 account for 1.2%.
Who's having abortions (race)?
While white women obtain 60% of all abortions, their abortion rate is well below that of minority women. Black women are more than 3 times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are roughly 2 times as likely.
Who's having abortions (marital status)?
64.4% of all abortions are performed on never-married women; Married women account for 18.4% of all abortions and divorced women obtain 9.4%.
Who's having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".
Who's having abortions (income)?
Women with family incomes less than $15,000 obtain 28.7% of all abortions; Women with family incomes between $15,000 and $29,999 obtain 19.5%; Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%.
WHY WOMEN HAVE ABORTIONS
1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).
At what gestational ages are abortions performed:
52% of all abortions occur before the 9th week of pregnancy, 25% happen between the 9th & 10th week, 12% happen between the 11th and 12th week, 6% happen between the 13th & 15th week, 4% happen between the 16th & 20th week, and 1% of all abortions (16,450/yr.) happen after the 20th week of pregnancy.
Likelihood of abortion:
An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old. 47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion.
Abortion coverage:
48% of all abortion facilities provide services after the 12th week of pregnancy. 9 in 10 managed care plans routinely cover abortion or provide limited coverage. About 14% of all abortions in the United States are paid for with public funds, virtually all of which are state funds. 16 states (CA, CT, HI, ED, IL, MA , MD, MD, MN, MT, NJ, NM, NY, OR, VT, WA and WV) pay for abortions for some poor women.
Statistics from 1996? Oh geez, Now that's up to date. LOL
ReplyDeleteDo you think they have changed in recent years? Abortion clinics are very weary of giving out detailed information nowdays. If it was true then, it's true now. Maybe worse. You can't argue with the statistics, so you try to poke holes in them. Typical left wing extremism at it's best.
ReplyDeleteHere are some 2008 statistics:
ReplyDelete* Nearly half of all pregnancies to American women are unintended; four in 10 of these end in abortion.
* About half of American women have experienced an unintended pregnancy, and at current rates more than one-third (35%) will have had an abortion by age 45.
* Overall unintended pregnancy rates have stagnated over the past decade, yet unintended pregnancy increased by 29% among poor women while decreasing 20% among higher-income women.
* In 2005, 1.21 million abortions were performed, down from 1.31 million abortions in 2000.
* Nine in 10 abortions occur in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.
* A broad cross section of U.S. women have abortions:
o 56% of women having abortions are in their 20s;
o 61% have one or more children;
o 67% have never married;
o 57% are economically disadvantaged;
o 88% live in a metropolitan area; and
o 78% report a religious affiliation.
Looks like the numbers are very similiar to the earlier numbers.
ReplyDeleteI don't see the statistics on what percentage of women have abortions simply for convenience. Did you edit that part out?? Surely you wouldn't ommit something that contradicts your agenda??
Oh my stars, You called me a leftwing extremist because you posted ancient statistics and I called you out on it. If your going to crunch numbers and try to come at people with some facts then make sure their up to date. That would be like me posting something from Wiki to prove a point and asking everyone to take me seriously!
ReplyDeleteThe numbers posted by Byte are very similiar to the 1996 stats, except byte left out the reasons people get abortions.
ReplyDeleteWell I have my doubts it was intentional.
ReplyDeleteOh, of course not. (SARCASM)
ReplyDelete93% of all abortions are for convenience. That is a sad number, no matter which side of the argument you are on.
So you're accusing byte of leaving out stats intentionally? Nice!
ReplyDeleteWhat are you Byte's defender? I'm sure she's too stand up to have an agenda when it's obvious she does and maybe you do too.
ReplyDeleteAnd to those that think Dr. Tiller was just helping women -- he made around $1 million a year -- I seriously doubt he just had your best intentions at heart.
ReplyDelete@ 6:15
ReplyDeleteOMG - Nancy Drew you totally caught me! Or those statistics were just not included in the page of statistics I copied over.
Everyone has an agenda.
ReplyDeleteOf course, your gonna put up stats that back up your argument.
Maybe i still have not figured out who Byte is ... is byte a she or is she a he ?
who is byte?
@ JJ
ReplyDeleteI do not like people accusing me of misleading people on purpose. Like in this instance, the statistics I copied over were copied in full. I didn't omit anything or mold data to fit my agenda. No need, plus I am smarter than that.
Are you calling me hermaphrodite? =)
Yeah, maybe I am byte's defender and I'll take that as a compliment, because after following that persons blog and reading byte's posts for months now, you get to know a persons character.
ReplyDeleteYeah, and it's the character of a whiny liberal who wants government to help everyone instead of letting people help themselves.
ReplyDeleteAnd that fact that byte would choose a woman's right over the life inside her speaks volumes to me. Any good moral person would never even consider abortion except in extreme cases such as rape, or physical harm, etc.
Typical conservative, huh, always got bring the word liberal into the conversation. Funny thing, I know liberals against abortion and I know conservatives for abortion. I don't judge peoples character on one beliefof there's. Wow, I think you just called a lot of people in this world immoral! I really hope I don't know you personally.
ReplyDeleteI'm done, comment back if you want, but I will not respond back.
Okay, What is this pick on Byte day? Why is it that you people always bring Byte into everything. I don't think Byte needs people to defend him/her, But it get's absurd when every topic is switched to Byte. So, Guess what? Now he/she has two people defending her/him.
ReplyDeleteQUOTE- Any good moral person would never even consider abortion
Really? And your the standard for morality? You sit on a blog and post with such hate and judgement and it really is sad and pathetic. You sit behind a better than thou attitude, So full of spite and the things you post would have you embarrassed if people really knew who you were. You tell people how they should conduct themselves while you post such vial things. Your so radical that it concerns me. Not everyone in this world is a cookie cutter mold of each other.... Everyone is different and in the "land of the free" you should accept that and learn to love everyone, Not just people who believe the exact same thing as you. Do you tell your kids how to think? I hope that you give them enough room to think for themselves.
What is this pick on Byte day?
ReplyDelete>
Hmmmmm maybe not a bad idea.
I get the feeling he-she can take it.
Maybe all the ark city bloggers could rotate whose day it is to get picked on.
@ 8:17, @ 4:09
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