I thought it was worthwhile to show the cartoons Mell Kuhn sent. I knew it would re-start the Lowes - Big Box debate, and it has again run its course.
I think its time we move on though, the argument has become repetitious, almost on schedule.
This morning someone questioned whether Lowes was actually coming, and that is usually the last point made.
Both sides have stated their cases. I think many of us have both sides memorized by now. In some cases they even use the same evidence.
But the question is ... What do we do now?
We cant change what is done, but we can change our future. Actually we must change our future. We can continue decline and never change anything until we fade into obscurity. Or, we can decide what we want and do what we can to make that happen.
As I have said before.
We need leadership. We need vision. We need people willing to stare down the naysayers.
We should perhaps debate the TIF. Whether or not we should create one.
We should perhaps debate whether we need industry or retail. The best answer is really both.
Ill admit that Ill vote for retail. Before the economic downturn, local industry was not able to fill the jobs it had, though they were not great paying jobs.
There are only so many people here. We need more people to fill jobs that industry would want in the first place. You do that by creating retail options.
If you want to attract industry, there are some realities. Industries have a choice, so they will go where they get the best deal. This includes tax breaks and probably a TIF. They also go where they will be able to get the best trained employees. Cowley College has a program that can help with that.
Another thing industry looks at is amenities. Things like a hike and bike trail, nice looking yards and streets, good schools, softball and baseball fields.
They look at things like community spirit.
I did say I would lean toward retail, but ... if you are going to recruit industry, you had better be willing and able to give industry what it needs. Just about any industry anywhere has many options. You have to compete. I would like to see detailed information on just how much has been done so far.
Industries you do not have to compete for are industries we probably would not want ... like a nuclear waste dumpsite.
But we cant look to government to do everything. We can look to government to provide police protection, water and sewer, and a climate conducive to business. Beyond that, it is up to us.
Good Post!
ReplyDeleteBut here is the reality! I have a realative who lives in North Cowley County! She doesn't consider shopping in Winfiled or Ark City when she can go to Derby or Wichita! Usually Derby.
Those in the South go to Ponca City! Don't you!
So really while we say there is support for certain things that may be true if we could get that same store here!
If you look to the past there are the remains of all the cities strewn all over the country side like Dexter, Atlanta, Cedarvale etc. who didn't grow and now exist by the choice of their citizens or by farming and ranching! They once had car dealerships, grocery and hardware stores ect.
But, Winfield and Ark City are different! They are ten miles apart with an Airport/Industrial Park halfway connected by a major four lane highway! Makes you wonder if Mr. Docking and others didn't have a differnet vision for the area than what we achieved today!
Two towns that can't see that vision and each one that wants to go its own direction. But, both have owernship of Strother Field.
Winfield is duplicating the industrial park theme and Ark city wants to be a Retail Magnet!
Neither was probably envisioned by the builders and deveopers of Hwy 77.
So, in the end who's right!
Maybe both - maybe neither!
For the area is not retaining its youth or attracting new ones. There is no new industry other than whats left or has been nurtured and developed by locals.
Even the locally owned businesses are selling out to larger ones and alot of that money is leaving the area. Have you noticed those who make their money and then leave!
In summary there is no second and third generations to carry on the torch or cause!
Why is that?
But we cant look to government to do everything. We can look to government to provide police protection, water and sewer, and a climate conducive to business. Beyond that, it is up to us.
ReplyDelete------------------------------------------------
I thought we were looking to our government for healthcare now too?
Well government does have a role. I did say that there were some things government has to do, and we have to do the rest.
ReplyDeleteSame with health care. Government has to make sure the big companies are acting legally and ethically.
You cant let the fox take care of the hen house. Just trust the fox to do the right thing eh.
what is the big toot to grow, most of us moved here because we like a small rural town,, if you want big city conveiance move to one, do not destroy utopia
ReplyDeleteGood post James. We shouldn't look to Big Bubba for help, it is up to us. If we don't China will eat us alive. But the local retailers have a responsibility to become more attractive to us as well. My paycheck has to stretch as far as possible. I want to buy here if possible.
ReplyDeleteHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ReplyDeleteSomeone used the word UTOPIA to describe Ark City!
AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Reality, as you stated, is that businesses come to communities based on incenitives and that includes things like TIF which ARE paid back to the city plus we get taxes. Some requirements of a city can not be paid for if the city dies and the tax base vanishes. I think it is the duty of the leaders to try to grow that tax base. A new business means more not less tax dollars plus jobs.
ReplyDeleteReality is that we are in a competition for not only peoples money but their choices and livelyhoods. As well as those of their families.
ReplyDeleteJust because we are comfortable with ourselves doesn't make it right at the expense of some or all others.
But the greatest gift that can ever be given is to help others find/make their own way!
^ Wow, Someone needs to settle down.
ReplyDeleteIndustry needs retail. So if no one wants retail, I guess we all have enough jobs to go around? I seriously doubt adding a few stores is going to turn us into a big city and ruin the 'utopia' Did you really use that word? That was funny. :-)
ReplyDeleteIt's pretty simple folks! Continue with the argument that "TIFS aren't fair for the small business owner" and Ark City will slowly continue down the path of self-destruction. Let's be blunt here, anyone whose lived around Ark City for the past 20 years or so has witnessed it's steady decline in commerce and industry. I'm the first to agree that new small businesses should also be offered some sort of tax break or other start up incentives. That being said, most start up businesses are pretty small compared to the bigger retail/dining corporations that can offer employment to way more people. Name/brand recognition also holds it's own water. Furthermore, a majority of large corporations do in fact make various contributions to the communities in which they operate, it' just good business sense. Lowes even has a link on their webpage called Commitment to Community. They're just one example, there are plenty more just like em. So many people talk about these organizations like they're "outsiders" when in reality they offer employment to your relatives, friends and neighbors! And don't forget, many industries are reluctant to set up shop in a community if there aren't adequate retail services to support a decent quality of life for their employees. So go ahead, keep up with your closed minded attitudes and the annual AC "Tumbleweeds" car show will take on more meaning behind it's name.
ReplyDeleteOk, so go with the Lowes - even with the number of laid off workers from aircraft - but change the location to the retail acreage at Strother Field.
ReplyDeleteIt would resolve the issue and internal struggle within the community of Ark City.
Provide better access for Winfield and surrounding aeras. The infrastructure is already in place for traffic and Development.
But, I'll bet the support for that proposal will fade real fast!
Why is that!
btw: Ark City is part owner in Strother Field!
Lowes was never coming here. Get your fabrications straight.
ReplyDelete4:32, you are either trying to start an argument, or you really are that ignorant. Research the facts before you speak.
ReplyDeleteWHy did the city not use eminent domain to take the property from AC industries?for the betterment of the community, they took land from others for less?
ReplyDeleteWHy did the city not use eminent domain to take the property from AC industries?
ReplyDeleteBecause ACI is a separate entity from the city and is in the County! No tax contribution to the City! But, they have used the city in the past for bonds and want the City to develope their part of property. ACI will be glad to profit from developing the rest and keep it within the entity! All the big plans that they had for their part of the property once the infrastructure was built by the City and Developer got trashed. Dang them Amigos!
Do you see ANYONE who was pushing for the development considering any other options?
The three Buzzards were elected to get this done
or set the ground work for it at a later date.
But, who cares if they destroy the unity within the town as long as they get their way!
ACI is not in the county. It is a group of local people from ALL walks of life that have invested in the city to help bring growth via industry or retail. They have worked on many, many projects through the years (decades actually) and have had some success and some less so. They are pushing for any development but at THIS momemt in our history the retail part is interested in US. This is amazing considering the treatment they received in the past. We can let this go and shrug our shoulders or we can SEE what it entails.
ReplyDeleteIt would just be nice if facts would be used and not totally misinformation to discuss the issues.
JJ is very familiar with the proposal, and how everything went down. I don't know why he doesn't correct some people who post disinformation.
ReplyDeleteI do correct some disinformation.
ReplyDeleteBut I have figured out, that most people have their minds made up. You can tell them the facts, but it doesnt matter.
so thats why i dont all the time.
Sorry, Goff Ind. Park is in the County!
ReplyDeleteOk bottom line - do you see ANYONE competeing to get the Proposed Lowes project?
ReplyDeleteWhat would it mean for someone to compete to get it?
ReplyDeleteWell, if it was as Hot as proposed! Why would there not be a line of developers or financiers wanting to do counter proposals or even other options with alternative sites?
ReplyDeleteThat's the part that doesn't add up!!!!
btw: If there really is to be a development making it known and opening it up to competiton would be the best way IMHO!
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't hot i dont think.
ReplyDeleteIt took years to get a developer willing to do it.
Why do it if the commission is going to reject it?
It wasn't hot i dont think.
ReplyDeleteIt took years to get a developer willing to do it.
Then what does that tell you!
So get over this thing and move on to the things that are more important. If you are trying to attract large industry it probably won't happen! Even with a Lowes!
If you get a Lowe's and something else it isn't going to stop people from going out of town to shop at the stores the like! You can't get them all to come to this area!
Do something like talk to Sutherlands!
But don't expect ACI who is the "in-house" economic development source to go out of their way to promote alternatives that are not in their interest. They are in it to make money too!
I don't blame them for that!
But, you also have to wonder what has crossed their desk and got turned away!
Ask the commission what got turned away and it is true that the developer has never quit talking to ACI about coming. No one will come to town without incentives and it has been obvious that the past commission did not want anyone. Consequently, no one tried. The majority of the money made by ACI goes back to fund the next project...they even said they would work with downtown with any money that was made on the last effort. No one wants to listen to that or even acknowledge anything that may come about that is good...
ReplyDeleteI'm going to say this and in the process step and stomp on alot of toes!
ReplyDeleteWe don't have the proper people in key positions we need locally to accomplish what needs to be done!
We have resources that are severly unused with the mindset that we need to duplicate them or have our own!
There is a need to come together and build based on common needs for the benefit of both communites. This includes the use of Strother Field!
It seems that structure is the biggest problem
with both cities equal owners and yet the county is the recepient of the taxes!
The county has no say or seat on the Strother
Commission.
It needs fixed! The unused acreage has great potential for business and even some large retail!
But until the Cities can share in the benefit of its developement it will go nowhere!
But, the cost to continue our own little sand boxes is going up and we are losing youth and gaining age!
The combined efforts of both towns and a way to share profit would go along ways towards getting us back on track.
We need those type leaders in both cities and the County!
The majority of the money made by ACI goes back to fund the next project...they even said they would work with downtown with any money that was made on the last effort.
ReplyDeleteDid that offer include the money they would make on the development of the remainder of the complex? Or just the money they made on the Lowes site?
Who cares if ACI makes money? All you people who are against someone besides you making a buck really don't understand capitalism.
ReplyDeleteI guess it's lucky for you that we are no longer a capitalist society. Eh, comrades?
the problem i have is,ACI is treated differently than an individual, If i own property that is where development is going to happen it will be taken via imminent domain or be purchased at acre land value,, ACI could own the same property and it would not even be attmepted to be taken via imminent domain, and when it was purchasedit would be purchased for commercial value.
ReplyDeleteThis makes for unfair market manipulation and is wrong, that is why it is unfair for ACI to ride on the Cities Back like a crack monkey waiting for its fix