He makes some good points.
One point being that the insurance industry gets $177 billion per year in what amount to corporate welfare from the government. That money could be used to help people who need insurance and health care get it.
The white house's web site is also pretty good. It has some actual information, not just political rhetoric.
Im not sure if the meeting will be available to be heard again, but you can still get a lot out of the white house web site. http://www.whitehouse.gov
He dispelled a lot of the tales going around.
You must have watched something different than me. And to believe the White House web site on Health Care isn't full of political rhetoric...what planet on you living on? Do you think they are not going to give their side to convince you?
ReplyDelete.what planet on you living on? Do you think they are not going to give their side to convince you?
ReplyDelete>>
Of course they are. But you can actually find out what their side of it is, as opposed to the spin meisters version.
We need to judge his actual proposals ... dont you think ?
Of course they are. But you can actually find out what their side of it is, as opposed to the spin meisters version.
ReplyDeleteWe need to judge his actual proposals ... dont you think ?
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>
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The spin meisters? The people against ObamaCare are not the ones who encourage others to snitch on others via a special email address.
The people against ObamaCare are not the ones who tried to railroad the bill into law before August break. What happened to Obama's promise of allowing people to read the bill online and discuss it?
The same thing that happens to ALL of Obama's promises!
ReplyDeleteI agree 3:48 - It's been online for awhile. Plenty of time to be discussed.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad we finally have a Prez who keeps his word!
where is it ?
ReplyDeletei didnt see it on the whitehouse site?
the conservatives are playing a lot of dirty pool though, with stories like the death panels and such.
it is ironic that insurance companies now decide what care you can get - what they can get by without covering - while raising your rates.
but people dont want the government doing that.
hmmmm
James;
ReplyDeleteHere it is http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/AAHCA-BillText-071409_2.pdf
No wonder the plan is over a thousand pages; the senators formatted that thing like a freshman procrastinator trying to make a minimum page limit. Put it in a normal font size and spacing and it probably wouldn't break 300 pages.
So, which page has the death panel stuff and provision for Obama gaining further dark power by eating the souls of children on the plan?
Yeah, that is what I thought, if you actually READ the health care plan the "evil" things I have been hearing are not in there. For those who are saying this is full of the evil things I challenge you to give me the page and the line so I can read all of the "evil" content myself....Go ahead, find those things in the plan and post the page and lines they are on. That way we can read them and discuss them like adults....if there are bad things in there I want to know where they are so I can read them.
ReplyDeletePrecisely the Mad Linker's point! I had to read it in order to have an informed debate, but you know how far that goes with the GOPs.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I don't think they can read, then I realize they probably CAN read, they just won't, unless Hannity or Rush or Chuck Norris or any of the other braintrusts leading the GOP parse it for them.
The way I read it GOPs...(and sorry to tell you this) THE GOVT WOULD NOT TAKE OVER ANYTHING IN THIS PLAN!
So, which page has the death panel stuff ...
ReplyDeleteIt's right after the section where he takes your gun away.
5:18
ReplyDeleteGood one! Are you also 5:02?
@4:36 - Don't you have a link to it on your health page?
ReplyDeleteYes i do, Sorry.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking there was another plan out there, but I guess not.
I also have on the health page, a senate version, which is sort of a summary. ... a mere 52 pages.
"Go ahead, find those things in the plan and post the page and lines they are on. That way we can read them and discuss them like adults....if there are bad things in there I want to know where they are so I can read them."
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you just read it yourself instead of waiting for others to read it for you?
I am glad the thing is finally online so we can read it in it's entirety, however, that doesn't change the fact that Obama tried like hell to push it through by August first when nobody had even had the chance to read it, let alone discuss and understand it. Any time things are rushed through like that it worries me as to why they don't want it looked at too hard.
ReplyDeleteThe cow scoops everyone yet again.
ReplyDeleteAug 11 @ 6:48,
ReplyDeleteI have been reading it and can't find any of the stuff that I have been hearing about that is so bad. My challenge was for others to read it and point out the bad stuff that I must be missing. I can't believe you didn't get that from my post. Try again!
The Health Care Reform would be more acceptable when:
ReplyDelete1. The government can prove it can handle health care responsibly...both fiscally and efficiently...not like Medicare, the VA hospitals, the postal service, IRS, etc.
2. When they can prove they can pay for it without taking more from the people that are now paying unbelievably high taxes and penalizing many responsible citizens.
3. When they address the very issues making health care so expensive now...the drug companies, the insurance companies, the lawyers, the medical companies. I leave the docs out because they are forced by those people to order unnecessary tests to either get paid or to avoid frivolous suits. Doctors are not expected to keep people healthy but to get people well when they are sick. Perhaps, more needs to be done to keep people healthy to begin with.
4. When they can prove they will not take over health decisions and leave those to the patients.
I will change my mind on Obama's Healthcare plan when he annouces that he and every member of his administration, and every government employee, will take part in it. After all, it's for EVERYONE, right? Single payer system does not allow for outside insurance, so Obama should receive the same healthcare as you and I are going to be subject to. If it's good enough for him and his administration to push on us, whether we want it or not, then it should be good enough for him and all government employees.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I have read, you would get to keep your insurance as is, if you wanted to.
ReplyDeleteHow is that forcing it on people?
But it is a good point, that He and Congress, should be willing to do the same as everyone else.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090812/us_time/08599191583500
ReplyDeleteYou're drinking the kool-aid JJ, but it tastes dirty.
ReplyDeleteThe idea is to TEMPORARILY allow people to keep their own insurance, and then 10 or 15 years down the road Obama expects us to be on the single payer system. He is on video saying as much.
ReplyDeleteIf you put a frog in boiling water he will jump out, but if you put him in warm water and slowly turn up the heat, he will sit there until he boils and dies. We are the frogs and Obama is the one with his hand on the controls.
I'm sure England and Canada thought their system would work just like the government told them it would too and now they are rationing care and have long waiting lists. So just because they tell you this won't happen, you just blindly believe?
ReplyDeleteHe also said AARP was on board too and now we know that's not true. What else isn't true?
At the town hall in Portsmouth, N.H., Obama said, "We have the AARP onboard because they know this is a good deal for our seniors." He added, "AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare."
ReplyDeleteBut Tom Nelson, AARP's chief operating officer, said, "Indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate."
Thanks to "I Love Being Right" for the link to the article.
No koolaid here, im just asking questions.
ReplyDeleteI expect obama and supporters to give answers to questions.
Should I not also expect answers from those throwing stones?
The problem I see is lots of hype on both sides - politics as usual.
Some of the stuff Obama says is not true. Some of the stuff those attacking is not true. Im just trying to figure out the truth here :)
If I make both sides a little angry, I figure im on the right track :)
The idea is to TEMPORARILY allow people to keep their own insurance, and then 10 or 15 years down the road Obama expects us to be on the single payer system. He is on video saying as much.\>>
ReplyDelete>>>
Cool, give me the link and Ill post it here
This could be a real piece of information, if we can find the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7wTDK-LwqE
ReplyDeleteWatch to the end.
I heard yesterday that you get to keep your current insurance UNTIL there was a change to your plan, then you have to go on the government plan. Does anyone know where that is in the big huge bill? I want to know for sure.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if the President and apparently most of Congress have not even READ this bill -- how do they know what is in ALL of it enough to pass it? This is a big deal and it needs fully understood before it is passed. I don't want to be tuning in to a town hall where Obama is saying 'well we didn't know that would happen, or we didn't know that was in there'
And there is no way for them to know how this is going to work out or the exact cost of it. There is no way. I'm sorry but my health care is more important to me to trust to some dirty politicians.
"Cool, give me the link and Ill post it here
ReplyDeleteThis could be a real piece of information, if we can find the link."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk
In his own words.
Democrats are not pushing a single payer option at all.
ReplyDeleteRepublicans claim the public option would drive private insurance companies out of business - therefore creating a single payer system by default. Basically, private insurance companies will have to compete (against the public option) to remain competitive in the market. The public option is forcing competition where a monopoly has existed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab8cDxLNRkE&feature=related
ReplyDeleteHere is John Stossel from 20/20 telling it like it is.
@Byte: Obama said himself that 10 or 15 years down the road he wants a single payer system. But you say that's not what he or the Democrats want?
You may find the complete bill on the site.
ReplyDeletewww.arkcityrevived.com
go to the health page.
as per competition. obama pointed out yesterday, that UPS and FED-EX are doing just fine even though there is a government run post office in operation.
Ill look at that video in a minute
It doesn't really matter what Obama wants at this point because a majority of Americans do not support single payer at this time. It's not in the bill for that very reason.
ReplyDeleteBesides, Obama will not be the President in 10 or 15 years either!
My last comment was directed at 1:42.
ReplyDeleteI watched the video. It is pieces of different speeches. It is obviously put together by anti-Obama people. Other videos on that site try to show Obama as being anti-white people.
ReplyDeleteSorry, its just to easy to take things out of context.
I want to see the video in its entirety, uncut, where he says what you all are saying he said.
Also, why are you all defending the insurance companies so much.
Their profits are through the roof. There is no competition now.
And insurance companies tell you now what doctor you can see and what procedures you can have.
Why should not want to reign in out of control monopolies ?
The first video is Obama sitting there saying that he doesn't want single payer IMMEDIATELY, but in the long term that could change.
ReplyDeleteHow EXACTLY is that taken out of context?
I swear James, you are drinking the Kool Aid!
Um, JJ, the post office is NOT doing ok. UPS and Fed Ex are. The post office is another example of poor operation by the government.
ReplyDeleteThe 'public' option will be not for profit, so it's ok if they (the government) looses money (because it's ours) and they (the government) will have no tax liability. So tell me how private insurance competes with that?
ReplyDeleteDoesn't sound like a fair playing field to me. And my insurance does not tell me what Dr. I can go to.
The Congressional Budget committee even says this bill will not reduce government spending on Health Care.
ReplyDelete“We do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount,” Douglas Elmendorf, director of the nonpartisan agency, told the Senate Budget Committee today. “On the contrary, the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility.”
How can "I am a proponent of a single payer healthcare system" be taken out of context?
ReplyDeleteWhy is government seen as evil, but greedy corporate monopolies seen as a good thing?
ReplyDelete@ 4:00
ReplyDeleteHow can single payer is NOT in the bill be taken out of context?
From the very lips of Barrack Obama
ReplyDeletefollow the link if you want to see and hear it for yourself.
http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-in-03-id-like-to-see-a-single-payer-health-care-plan/
“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”
ReplyDeleteby Barrack Obama
@12:02
ReplyDeleteStephen Hawking (Brit) on his amyotrophic lateral sclerosis: "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS. I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/aug/12/birthers-stephen-hawking-paul-rowen
I dont know the ins and outs of single payer - whether its good or bad. He is NOW saying his plan does not call for that, so maybe he changed is mind?
ReplyDeleteI just dont think consevatives and publicans are going to like any plan, no matter what it is .. if we made the chinese pay for it and take in all the mexicians, yall still wouldnt like it.
BUT
he wants to have a system where EVERY american is covered. I just cannot see what is wrong with that.
Why would it be bad for every american to have access to health care?
That is what he is talking about. The public system, or whatever, would be made up of insurance companies ... it would not be government run, as I understand it.
But, what is wrong with providing health care for everyone?
Here JJ, take an hour and watch this 20/20 report by John Stossel about government healthcare in other countries. It is very eye opening.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEXFUbSbg1I
@Byte, You haven't been listening.. The plan is to start slow and build up to a single payer system. Of course this first phase does not say single payer in it. Pay attention.
That's it! He changed his mind.
ReplyDeleteJJ, let me help you; single payer is bad.
Basically, you are forced to pay (taxes) and forced to accept the treatment (or lack thereof) that they provide.
How about this blip:
Obama said “you just get into some very difficult moral issues” when considering whether “to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill."
(I suppose that is taken out of context.)
Let's fly it under the flag of health care for EVERYONE. (unless you are already terminally ill, then... as the Soup Nazi would say "No soup for you!")
Here JJ, take an hour and watch this 20/20 report by John Stossel about government healthcare in other countries. It is very eye opening.
ReplyDeleteI saw the short version of that.
I can show you a handful of links that show how great it is in those countries and how bad it is here. Someone sent them to me earlier. I may post them later.
We can link each other to death :)
Still, my question is .. why is it a bad thing to try to provide health care for everyone?
Why do we have to have fund raisers to pay peoples medical bills here?
The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.
ReplyDeleteThrough clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.
ReplyDeleteI use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few.
ReplyDeleteThe day of individual happiness has passed.
ReplyDeleteThrough clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise
ReplyDeleteSo what makes you think that this healthcare policy we have now is a good one? Could it be that the propaganda has been working really well? Think about it......
If you were unemployed and you lost health care for you family.....it would probably knock you off of the pedistal Adolf.......
ReplyDeleteI saw obama say that about facing "tough moral issues" about giving a terminally ill person a hip replacement.
ReplyDeleteDo you honestly think any insurance company would do that now ?
But, the context of that quote was, that he wanted to improve health care, and give people more care. He wants to give people the power and ability to make their own decisions, instead of having an insurance company make them.
On the hitler quotes .. whether they are real or not.
You have to admit, propaganda is flying fast and furious on both sides.
But the screamign from the right seems more like an attempt at drowning out any real information, than it does any effort to find a solution.
It cuts both ways.
Who is lying here?
Poster at 8:31, i can relate. If i break my leg right now, im gonna be out of luck.
@ JJ
ReplyDeleteConsumers and businesses will have the option of purchasing private insurance or insurance under the health care exchange program.
The health care exchange program is divided into two parts: Participating insurance companies (private but regulated) or the public option (government run). Not to confuse the subject further but an option that is being considered in place of the public option is not for profit co-ops.
For insurance providers to participate in the exchange they must meet certain standards of care: Prohibited from denying coverage for a pre-existing condition, deductibles are capped, prohibited from capping annual or lifetime coverage amounts, prohibited from dropping coverage for seriously ill and they must renew your policy if you've paid your premiums.
Consumers can choose from either option in the exchange and will be eligible for subsidies based on their ability to pay.
The exchange itself will require private insurers to compete in the market and opens up an affordable choice for those who can not afford private insurance, are ineligible or just plain do not like it.
Byte
ReplyDeleteyou know im no liberal. i just cant see what is so wrong with this plan.
except that the huge insurance conglomerates could see some of their profits shrink.
maybe all the republicans own stock in insurance companies ? :)
JJ, who is going to pay for it?
ReplyDeleteAre you suggesting that my taxes pay for lung cancer treatment for smokers?
Who should pay for the hospital bill for the obese when their heart disease catches up?
I can't figure out why so many people want more government in their lives.
Think of it like this: This health care program is like one great big fundraiser. And whether you like the cause or not, you will give.
But, what is wrong with providing health care for everyone?
ReplyDeleteAugust 12, 2009 5:54 PM
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That's exactly what communism attempted to do and it failed! (No incentive to do any better or to work any harder if at all!)
America was built on the ability move from and through the "Classes" of its society. You weren't gauranteed anything that wasn't based on merit and then not gauranteed to keep it.
Its simply amazing how far we have gone from the original values that were once held sacred.
Sure, there were all kinds of societal problems in past generations but, they knew that once the barriers that kept their society civil, respect for the elderly, marriage and family, honesty in business, fair pay for an honest days work, pride in community, rooting for your neighbors, helping those in difficulty and a genuine love of country! (btw: Aren't those Christian values?)
Once those values were lost or replaced it would not be the same Society!
and
You can't have a Government who is a regulatory body that makes the rules/laws compete with or in a private sector industry!
You end up interfering in or worse regulating away the competition!
Sound familiar?
But, you could encourage competition among privte sector companies that would find ways to serve those who don't have healthcare coverage!
You have lots of government there already. And your taxes are paying for lots of medicare and medicade, not to mention high costs of treating the indigent.
ReplyDeleteHomeless people now have to go the emergency room for a bad cold, which costs us tax payers hundreds of dollars. Wouldnt it be better if a homeless person could go to a clinic and get some decongestant, and even a shot, for $30 or so?
Point being, we are giving plenty already.
The only difference is the cost will be less when there are price controls.
who determines the $30 or so? Sounds so nice, doesn't it!?! Healthcare for everyone. hooray!!! What else can daddy give me? food stamps? unemployment check? low income housing? why would I ever want to work?
ReplyDeleteSo many of you are such willing subjects.
Leaps and bounds in medicine are possible because people are competing for profits by finding the next cure. If there is no profit to be made, there will be no reason to try so hard to find a cure. Do you think drug companies will spend all the money they do now on research if they are not making all the money they are now?
ReplyDeleteMedicare for seniors is great but it requires supplemental insurance and if medicare says a condition is not covered...it isn't covered by insurance either. If you are in rehab and medicare says you only get 20 days that is it. No way you can question or ask for more. The burden to show you need more is on your shoulders and if you are not capable of navigating through mounds of red tape and appeals you are done. I understand that may also hold true for insurance companies but I would put more faith in the private company than in the government to deal with my health.
ReplyDeleteWaits in Canada and England for health care treatment are never ending. Deal with the real issues of health care costs and more people will be able to get insurance without government intervention.
You have lots of government there already
ReplyDelete------------
Exactly the Point! So much and at so many levels from Washington to the State, County and then right down to the the local School system. How do you expect healthcare as a private sector business to compete?
@Aug 12 9:50
ReplyDeleteNo you won't. You'll find some other reason that Obama sucks and you are beyond reproach. That is, you'll wait for Beck, Bill O, and Rush to tell you.
I don't watch any of the people you listed. You just like to attack people personally because your arguments are weak. Go back to watching Rachel Maddow and drooling, you liberal whiner.
ReplyDeleteI don't watch any of the people you listed.
ReplyDelete*eye-roll*
Uh, yeah...I don't watch that - who was it - Rachel Maddow??? Yeah- never watch the person you listed.
I don't like to attack people personally. I know you do, because you sign your posts. You know nothing of my arguments as I am anonymous.
As for the drooling, well - ya got me on that one.
Sorry to dissapoint you, but I really don't watch or listen to any of the people you mentioned. Why would I lie about it? I have seen clips on youtube of some of them, but I bet you have as well. I have also watched clips of Maddow and Oberman, and Mathews, but that doesn't mean I believe anything they say either.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't care less who you are, or what your argument is, I was simply responding to your flippant remarks about who I must watch and listen to, since I am a constitution waving conservative. I couldn't possibly get my news from unbiased sources and make up my own mind, could I? You people crack me up.
"You people"
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you are no longer in law enforcement.
What do you mean "YOU PEOPLE"? haha
ReplyDelete