Ive been reading some of the material about Obama's health care package. Actually, its not his package. There are several versions making their way through the House and Senate.
I've not heard too much about Sebelius in this.
Anyways, it raises a lot of interesting questions.
One is the traditional debate about health care in the first place. Health care is very important. I believe government should provide for those that cannot afford it.
There is also a lot of abuse and our system isnt working.
Im sure everyone has heard the horror stories about problems with socialized medicine in other countries. Stories like having to wait months for an operation. Is that any worse than not being able to get it at all because your insurance company - who you have paid thousands to - won't cover it?
Ive asked people in other countries, where they have socialized medicine. My little poll is not scientific at all, but the thing is, EVERY person i have asked, who lives in another country, raves about it. Australia, New Zealand, Netherlands, England, Ireland, Germany, France ... People there all tell me its wonderful.
A person i met over the internet in Ireland, a disabled man, said .. "mate its simple, you get sick, you go get what you need at the doctors."
Another couple I know, who are missionaries, stayed in their country an extra two months so they could have their baby there because of the cost.
Another issue that is interesting - and hard for us moderates.
Would socialized medicine cover the cost of abortions? Some legislators are opposing it because it does not refuse to cover cost of abortions.
Now I am pretty much pro-life. Pretty much means I believe in some compromise on the issue. However, since it is legal, then if you take it out of the plan, you are only withholding the procedure from poor people. I dont think that is fair.
While I oppose abortion in general, I dont see any reason to withhold funding since it would only affect poor people.
At present it is up to individual insurance companies whether they will cover abortions or not. In the new plan there are several insurance companies involved. Seems the simplest solution would be to continue the practice of letting the insurance companies decide.
Maybe the greater issue is using the abortion debate as a smokescreen to hide the real issues.
The latest AP poll says public support for national health care is fading.
They need to do something. But honestly I do not know what or how much.
ReplyDeleteHow do they decide who can't afford it? People with to many bills, but a big screen, best cable package and an i-phone or those who really need it?
ReplyDeleteI'm just glad I've always worked for everything I have and have never stood around with my hand out or expected my government should give me something for free. There are very rare cases that I believe people should be covered under this health care plan-- but I'm sure it will get abused like every government program. Medicare is growing broke - so how do we expect this to work
I have always worked as well but I have also been in several lay offs and had a hard time finding work that paid enough to make a living in our area. I live modestly and cut corners when I can, I grow my own food and get things on sale to save a buck. No big screen here and I drive a five year old car. Be glad you can provide you and yours will every thing you need.
ReplyDeleteYes, Medicare is slowly going broke from people abusing it, just like the rich abuse paying the taxes they truely owe. Take medicare away from those who abuse, and make the wealthy who owe tax pay their fair share. What is good for one is good for the other. We just need to equal up the scale is all! : )
According to the Natl Review, Obamacare is snake oil and Republicans have a golden opportunity to present a better plan. Right Republicans? (...crickets)
ReplyDeletehttp://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NGMwNmRmNmFlMTNiNjVlYjc0MTRjYTM0YTNjYTM0ZGI=
Exactly - I understand there are hard times. But I also understand alot of people just expect something for nothing. And I think this further encourages alot of this behavior. I've seen it alot. What is the rich's fair share by the way? Do you think they should have to pay at a higher tax rate than everyone else? I'm far from rich, but I don't think that way.
ReplyDeleteGoodness. That's... amazingly conscientious of you. As a pro-choice activist since I was eleven years old, let me just say thank you, very much, for recognizing that taking abortion out of health care amounts to an unfair political penalty levied against the poor.
ReplyDeleteGEEZ
ReplyDeleteWell it's probably easier to treat the symptoms than to cure the disease! Thats how I look at Nationalized Healthcare!
ReplyDeleteHave you ever looked at the lottery? It takes the greater part of the money to administrate it-more than it provides in benefit to the tax system!
So, it will be with the system required to manage a Universal Healthcare plan!
I truely believe that the people in the healthcare profession already know its strengths and its weaknesses! They no doubt should have a say in what should be done! But, when you make Government related commitments, rules and restricitons like they are forced to abide?
I not too long ago heard someone say that certain ER's (not in this area) were going out of business because they were forced to give care to the uninsured and those on welfare or illegals! They don't even consider seeing a doctor!
While on the other hand they can bankrupt those that have anything or take their lifes savings!
If that isn't redistribution of wealth at it's best - I don't know what is! Another form of a stealth tax!
I don't think any Government Plan can cure a society where selfish and irresposible behaviors are rewarded and that includes abortion!
Lastly, I do agree with some type of pay as you go and all parties contribute system. Maybe even based on your ability to contribute and a safety net for those who have no choice!
On an aside: I know of someone whose mother-in-law had heart surgery - she was not in the condition to return home but was forced out of the hospital due to policy. She had trouble and had to be life watched back and eventually died! Where is the fiscal responsibility in something like that! All the additional expense and the evential loss of any benefit!
But if in the process you reward behaviors that futher destroy the fabric of our society such as family structure no amount of money or system will be large enough!
I have relatives in England. We do not want their type of health care. My uncle started having headaches and dizziness. He went to the doctor repeatedly and they finally consented to get an MRI. He was put on a list and finally got the MRI 6 months later. The diagnosis was a malignant brain tumor. He needed surgery. They put him on a list. Two months later he had surgery. He died a few months later. I have often wondered how long he would have lived if he had had the MRI and surgery in a timely fashion instead of almost a year later. My other relatives there tell of waiting months for simple things like getting a sore on a leg treated, etc. They have rationed health care, not quality health care!
ReplyDeleteWhen my grandmother's cancer came back the second time she was told that at her age she had had a good life. That was the end of her treatment. She was in her mid 70's at the time and died a few months later.
God help us if the government takes over our health care here!
I hope they hurry up and pass it so I can get rid of this unwanted pregnancy on the taxpayers dime instead of mine. I'm already in my 28th week, so they better hurry up. If they don't pass it in the next 12 weeks, I don't know what I'll do.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the rich's fair share by the way?
ReplyDeleteTheir fair share is the same as what the lower and middle class pay without all of the loop holes the wealthy find to avoid paying. I am far from rich myself but I find that the 1/3 of my pay check I donate very week to the government should be about the same for the wealthy as it is for me. Not to mention the property taxes that I pay and the sales tax I pay every time I buy something at the store.
Yes, there are many that abuse the system. The WELFARE system, I hope they work that one over soon. The medicare system is abused regularly by medical facilities and Drs hospitals ect.... some not all!!! That is how some of them get wealthy. I say make em pay!
The part that worried me was the statement "we will use treatments that work". Does that mean that the survival rate is only 25% so those odds mean no treatment....who decides. Currently, I have a relative that needs surgery but since her age is right at 80 and since her condition has just become apparent Medicare says no. They have to try treating it with medicine for a specified period of time. In the meantime, the condition gets worse...still no surgery since the meds need more time according to statistics. The doc has said that she could be dead before she gets the surgery...in the meantime, we have used tax dollars to pay for the meds through medicare and we have to keep taking them to be eligible for surgery. We are wasting time and money on meds when surgery could be done and the problem taken care of. The gov is wasting money with its own medicare issues...
ReplyDeleteIt will be the same with the healthcare for all that no one can afford. I am not comfortable with the statement "Healthcare reform must come now or we are all risk of losing insurance." Is that blackmail or just fear mongering.
There are good people that need help but lets be very very careful about what we help them and ourselves with.
Where is the money coming from to pay for this??? My great grandkids...I don't even have grand kids yet
Probably the same place your social security money is going....to the people who are drawing social security right now because they have lived longer than their grandpas did and are using your money because the money they paid in has run out. What a system we have!
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, more crickets from the GOP side of the aisle.
ReplyDeleteI am confused about the health care issue right now and admittedly haven't been reading about it as much as I should.
ReplyDeleteI thought the point of a nationalized plan was to bring the cost down so those with lower incomes could participate (i.e. pay INTO the system) and receive care? Those without income would continue receiving government benefit? How far off am I?
I wish though, that more attention would be applied to regulation and veterans care. Maybe it has and I missed it. I've been lazy on this one.
Right on - @ 2:25 and @ 4:07!
Off topic-
ReplyDeleteDid you see where they arrested all those Public officials and even some Rabbis in N.J.
on corruption charges?
Its simply amazing how far the our morality and system of values have slipped as a country!
The following is a quote from an old article:
ReplyDelete"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
What an unpopular pile of crap our Declaration of Independence must be. First of all, it recognizes a Creator (how naive those arrogant men must have been), secondly it doesn't list healthcare as a right.
We are not given a right to an easy life, a healthy life, a popular life, or a long life.
Is the government an expert on MRI's?
Is the government an expert on prenatal care?
Is the government an expert on fiscal soundness?
Now, take a bit of time and list what the government has proven to be good at and ask yourself if those attributes will benefit healthcare.
It took a year to get a hearing aid at the VA hospital from a war injury. One full year after they decided it was needed and then it is far from state of the art but it was free. I have faith in the government healthcare plan. NOT. I am also a democrat so please no cute "republican chirping" comments. We need to scrutinize the plan BEFORE it is passed and not shoved at us before an imaginary deadline. What will it cost, will it really help those it is supposed to help and what about those that have health care insurance. Are we putting insurance companies out of business and if so who gets to subsidize them.
ReplyDeleteSubstandard treatment with long waits is not really healthcare.
What is the rich's fair share by the way?
ReplyDeleteYou pay 1/3 of your check? How about in New York where taxes on the rich are now around 57%? Do you think that is fair? I think the majority of them do pay more than their fair share and 57% is ridiculous! So be happy with the 1/3!
Those rich also have loopholes and all kinds of tax deductions. In the end they paying the same percentage as someone in a lower income bracket. Don't let yourself be fooled by those numbers.
ReplyDeleteI'd be finding myself some loop holes too if they expected me to pay $.57 of every $1 I make? That's robbery!!!! Their smart those rich people - that's probably how they got that way in the first place :-)
ReplyDeleteWell this is off topic kind of-
ReplyDeleteI know someone who in the last few months registered his boats in Oklahoma for the lower taxes! He said well its not illegal and its easy and besides the guy at the tax office says he sees hundreds of people from Kansas!
So, higher prices might work to define a difference in produtcs, goods and services but higher taxes drive people to lower tax markets!
Especailly if there are increases and they result in the same or fewer services. In this case they don't get any of the money and it goes to another State!
Topeka, you guys are a bunch of BOOBs!
Hey I don't have a single problem with the rich people. Kudos for them. I'll I'm trying to get across, is that if they weren't taxed higher then us then they would be paying the same in taxes plus have all those loopholes .
ReplyDeleteYou know what really bothers me, is the ones that evade taxes by sticking them in off shore accounts. Those are the guys that is hurting the US the most.
"Those rich also have loopholes and all kinds of tax deductions. In the end they paying the same percentage as someone in a lower income bracket. Don't let yourself be fooled by those numbers."
ReplyDeleteYou do realize, I hope, that if the rich are paying the same percentage of taxes as you are, but they make a lto more money, then they are paying a lot more taxes than you are...RIGHT!?!?
I don't think it's at all fair to expect people to pay a higher percentage of taxes than other people just because they worked hard and made more money. What kind of incentive is that for people to start a business, or market an idea? It is punishment of the rich people to pander to the poor and lazy. Obama thinks he's frickin Robin Hood, and the poor folk just cheer him on. It's robbery, and it's unfair. Everyone should pay the same percentage.
Yah, and look at what those fat cats did to their own companies, with their tax write offs of parties and jets. Yeah boy, they sure suffered and got a second chance by that guy that is handing out only to the poor. Oh ya, you one of them that thinks it was ok to let those companies collapse and the jobless rate get even higher. I sit here and wonder how some people can sit there and feel ok with people losing their jobs and everything they worked for, just so the whiney butt rich wont have to pay an extra percentage in taxes to pick this nation back up. Whatever's clever to some.
ReplyDeleteI really don't expect the rich to pay MORE tax but paying the tax they owe would be great. Some on here say they are taxed more than all others but from what I could tell they are in New York, that says alot for New York. I guess if the rich don't want to pay 57% they need to move! I know the rich aren't paying that here in Kansas. Taking a trip on the company jet to a ball game can be a tax write off if you talk about business. A huge write off, when you get all of the other write offs they use to not pay the money they owe they don't pay the same I do....But what was priceless was the rich taking their private jets to Washington to ask for a hand out!!! Priceless....Poor rich guys....We all ought to be proud of them for working so hard!
ReplyDeleteThem dam rich peeple should quit makin there money and just give it too us poor folk. We deserve it because we voted for Obama. Obama is gonna get it for us cuz we deserve it. and he's gonna take it from the rich fat cats who owe it to us.
ReplyDeleteNow that was a great contribution to this thread. We can always count on you 6:53
ReplyDeleteby the way i thought taging your car or boat in okla. if you live in kansas was illegal.seem it was a few years ago.
ReplyDeleteIt is illegal, they have to catch em though.
ReplyDeleteIt is ironic that some of you on here knocking the people with their planes or with companies that own planes are the same ones who work for companies that make those planes. Those rich people stop buying those planes and we stop working.
ReplyDeleteSome of us have already stopped working, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But for those of you who do have jobs.....you have to give a bit of consideration for those who don't. Yes, I sure hope they keep making those planes for your sake. But God for bid they do stop buying them, then maybe those with jobs right now would understand how hard it is to live on unemployment, while looking for a job that pays more than unemployment. Not too many of those around. Not here anyway. Then try to look for health care you can afford.
ReplyDeleteIt is illegal, they have to catch em though.
ReplyDelete-----------------
They no doubt sneek down there hidden in the Casino crowd!
The point is what do you gain if you raise the taxes or fees and lose money in the process!
Now if we were cheaper than OK - do you think they would let their money come to Kansaa?
So, make the fees regional or some other way that equals it out and resduces the need to shop!
One other thing - don't go on a mission to penalize the people or make it more expensive just fair!