I didn't catch Obama's speech, but I did read some stories after it was over.
I was really surprised to see the story below.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/09/AR2009090902298.html
I knew Joe Wilson when I was in South Carolina. He was a state representative at the time. He is a very mild mannered, very proper, type person. I was amazed to see him get animated.
It just seems to me that politics has gone too far. This is why I am so cynical about politics. The prez speaks to kids, publicans object. Then we remember that Elderbush spoke to kids, and the dems had an investigation.
Now, the prez cant even make his case without Joe Wilson getting animated.
No one knows what is in Obama's health care plan. All we can hear is spin from both sides, attacks and counter attacks.
I doubt if the system will ever get fixed.
Why is Obama so afriad to let us know EXACTLY what is in his plan? That would stop all the confusion and rhetoric.
ReplyDeleteWilson shouting out "You lie!" when Obama said his plan does not cover illegals is becoming a rallying cry for angry democrats, yet Obama never said to the Dems whether or not he was still considering a public option. Something they are adamant about.
The speech was very vague when it came to detailing the plan, and very conbative toward the right. That is no way to reach the bipartisanship that Obama campaigned on.
From Yahoo's front page:
ReplyDeleteHouse Majority Whip James Clyburn, a South Carolina Democrat, said the remark was the latest in a long line of political attacks by Wilson.
“Joe Wilson took our state's reputation to a new low. I thought Mark Sanford had taken it as low as it could go, but this is beyond the pale," Clyburn said.
"Joe is very confrontational," he added. "He held his first town hall meeting three blocks from my house at my kid's high school. Now why would he have this town hall meeting in my congressional district, three blocks from my house in my kid's high school? It's not in his district.
That's the kind of guy Joe Wilson is. He loves confronting people. So he was confronting the president, just as he was confronting me."
Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin, the second-ranking Democrat in the Senate, predicted that Wilson’s outburst would have consequences.
"The person who said it will pay a price,” Durbin said. “I think the average American thinks that the president and the office deserve respect and that was a disrespectful comment. They'll pay a price in the court of public opinion."
"No one knows what is in Obama's health care plan." Great observation. This is really what's got most of the common folk worried. Someone knows what's in it. The people who wrote it. But, seems no one's really willing to put some of the writers forward to explain in detail. Look, without doubt something needs to be done. I mean if you don't have insurance, you will die if you get sick. (I was told personally by one local clinic that they WOULD NOT see me if I did not have insurance or prepay IN FULL) Go to the emergency room, they send you home & tell you to see your Dr. & charge you $1000.00. Back to your point: It's so much lies & falsehood on both sides. I just don't like the idea of gov't run health care. Look at Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, V.A., for some example of how the gov't CAN'T run anything. Now we are told the gov't can run health care. I don't think so. May help if we cut the medicine cost, the Dr.'s fee, the Hospital fee, etc. HELP!!!
ReplyDeleteWhat he has said, is that things are negotiable. Republicans are not interested.
ReplyDeleteEvery time he tries to say anything republicans go into attack mode.
THe reason you dont know whats in his plan , is that you are not listening. It is available online. Read it !
then make alternative suggestions.
Hey SG, Do you know that Obama has repeatedly said he is willing to let go of the public option.
ReplyDeleteOn Joe Wilson.
ReplyDeletePower must have gone to his head once he went to Washington.
THat's not the same Joe Wilson I remember.
Politics does change people.
He could come out and say "the sky is pink" and all the dems would immediately cheer & applaud. doesn't matter what he says, they cheer, even if they don't agree. the republicans would immediately denounce likewise. it's all about keeping in power, not what's best for the country. it's a charade and we the people are the biggest losers. listen to almost any news media, i.e. abc, msnbc, brand x, and they lock-step support, no matter how foolhardy it sounds. they do no thinking for themselves. blindly follow. i'm fed up with all of 'em!!!
ReplyDeleteThats what I think too. I really dont know that one side is more wrong than the other, they are both wrong. The health care debate is not about health care at all, its about political power. At least it is exposing the ugliness of politics.
ReplyDeleteI hope more people will start thinking that way.
We need more political parties. I think that would help.
"Hey SG, Do you know that Obama has repeatedly said he is willing to let go of the public option."
ReplyDeleteYes JJ, I am aware that Obama has flip flopped on the public option at least once, but the top democrats have also said they will not vote for the healthcare plan without the public option being included.
I think they will pass a liberal democratic healthcare plan, against the will of the majority of Americans, and it will bring about a republican uprising in the next election.
Interesting how I'm always reading how Obama is willing to negotiate on his plan and open to others ideas, yet neither side is ever happy with anything brought up. The republicans do not want this to succeed so the Dems do not look good. THAT being said, if it was a republican trying to overhaul the healthcare, the democrat party would be trying to block it. In my opinion, Obama and a select few are the only ones thinking of the people and the rest are just on a political tug a war mission. Blast me all you want, but it still won't change my opinion.
ReplyDeleteThe most interseting part of the whole debate is that you don't see the Titans of private industry speaking out or offerring solutions.
ReplyDeleteWhy is that?
>>>>
ReplyDeleteI think they will pass a liberal democratic healthcare plan, against the will of the majority of Americans, and it will bring about a republican uprising in the next election.>>>>
You may be right SG.
More politics as usual. THAT is the problem we have.
Liberals forget -- The Dems booed President Bush during his 2005 State of the Union address. They aren't always so respectful either. This is obviously a heated and emotional topic.
ReplyDeleteI love the part where he said he will call you out if you misrepresent the plan -- it's hard to know exactly what is in it!!!! But he will get you!!!
And I watched alot of commentary after the speech - I didn't even see one democrat agree that he won't add to the deficit. NO ONE even believes it's possible!!
just got a note this a.m. that this plan WILL immediately put Planned Parenthood clinics in the public schools. We all know what P.P. is about. Funny how almost ALL the media misses these most important points. At least I think it's important. Maybe no one else does. OR maybe it's just not mentioned, hoping no one will notice.
ReplyDeleteThats the first ive heard of that. Why would they put clinics in public schools?
ReplyDeleteDoesnt make economic sense for the clincs ,which are driven by profit.
What page is that on ?
Id like to take a look.
"Why would they put clinics in public schools?" Because this administration is in bed with the pro-abortionists. This administration makes no secret of that. The profit comes from the government paying for the abortions. It's all about the money jj. follow the money.
ReplyDeletei get back to you. documented fact...lemme check.
The most interesting comment on here was about the 9 or 10th one. I am personally so disgusted with this attitude of everyone always knowing the diabolical motives of everyone else. Most of the folks you are villifying you have never met and could only identify them if you had their photo from the newspaper beside you.
ReplyDeleteWhy are all sides allowing the real culprits behind this whole mess ride along silently in the back seat. We don't know what Obama wants because we won't listen. We don't know why the R's oppose because we won't think.
But, we all know how we feel when we pay health insurance premiums. We know how it feels if you do visit a doctor and have a hospital stay and find out how much the insurance did not pay.
We probably all know someone who has suffered near financial catastrophe from the huge gap between inadequate insurance and exhorbitant health care bills.
we mostly all know someone who is buying time hoping something will happen while they face a worsening health situation that could likely be remedied if health care were not tied to investor profits.
Health care should not be an industry traded on Wall Street. Investors should not be driving health treatment decision by the pressure to reap a 10% or better return on investment from the health care conglomerates.
It's a neighbor of yours or a friend of yours or a family member of yours whose health is declining or whose life might be lost while we play into this political partisan ideolgy and vanity.
This is the perhaps the lowest level demonstration of humanity in my life time being witnessed.
"This is the perhaps the lowest level demonstration of humanity in my life time being witnessed."
ReplyDeleteWhat year were you born Charles? I can think of many many things far worse than the healthcare situation that are taking place around the world right now. Take Burma or Mexico for example.
I suspect Charles is speaking of US citizens about sinking to the lowest level. Charles, I agree with you. Our country should be above and beyond and was once looked up to. Now we are a nation of gimee, gimee, gimee and don't give a rats a** about others anymore.
ReplyDeleteSo Socialism is the answer?
ReplyDelete@ 2:59
ReplyDeleteBull.Sh!t. I am starting to lose my patience with this sort of ignorant, intellectually lazy, conspiracy theory pedaling. Do you even think about what it is that you are saying? Do you even take one moment to research information before you blindly pass on this insane misinformation as fact - because you received an EMAIL.
Do you think that planned parenthood would be allowed in schools when schools didn't allow the POTUS to address kids about staying in school and working hard.
Use your damn head.
and cursing helps you make your point??
ReplyDeleteUncouth much?
As much as your extra question mark helps you make yours.
ReplyDeleteI do find it commendable that you are offended by my use of damn but comfortable letting someone blatantly lie. Perhaps you are being a bit biased in your form and function sheep.
Whatever you do -- don't cross Byte or Obama on this Health Care thing. Because she knows ALL and has all her biased information. Geesh.
ReplyDeleteBYTE--
ReplyDeleteThat's funny because Obama LIED, LIED, LIED in his speech the other night and you don't seem to care about his untruths. Won't add a dime to the deficit -- WHATEVER. Maybe he should consult the CBO or I guess he just chooses to ignore them and do whatever Nancy Pelosi tells him to do or say. Did anyone else see the strings the other night?
And how exactly is he handling the illegal immigrant problem since their not covered in his health car bill now? I'm curious since you are ALL knowing and have all this unbiased and truthful information at your fingertips.
(I can hear her dog growling already)
"Whatever you do -- don't cross Byte or Obama on this Health Care thing. Because she knows ALL and has all her biased information." You got that right. Byte acts like he's on B.O.'s payroll. Doesn't matter what you say, facts don't matter. If you speak ill of Prez. O, you will incite Byte's ire. (I'm trembling as I write this, hehe) He'll support Obama without question whatever he says. (salute) If you read the bill H.R. 3200 page 992 & forward, it's very explicit concerning the clinics in public schools. Prez O. has made his alliegiance to Planned P'hood very plain at least a year ago. Too bad.
ReplyDelete@ 1:40
ReplyDeleteAre you trying to shame me because I've armed myself with enough knowledge to know when someone is blatantly lying? When did being thoughtful or intelligent become a bad thing?
You know what? Forget it. Just call me an elitist and stay ignorant patriot.
@ 1:51
List specifically what Obama lied about and then back up your claims. I'll wait.
@ 5:43
You are getting warmer, patriot.
Now post the actual text in HR 3200 that states Planned Parenthood WILL infiltrate schools.
Byte is an idiot who thinks she knows more than us pathetic conservatives. It's just too bad we outnumber her in this town. She gets kinda condescending when angered, doesn't she?!
ReplyDeleteObama lied about the illegal aliens being covered.
Obama lied about it not putting us any further into debt.
Obama has lied repeatedly since being sworn in.
Those who still stand behind his socialist agenda are the sheep, not the patriots who stand for a better America.
I love how she says "Patriot" in a condescending tone, as if it's a bad word. To Socialist, Communist, liberals like her, I guess it is a bad word.
@ 10:17
ReplyDeleteI AM absolutely being condescending as I no longer have the patience to deal with those not interested in honest debate. I'm done pacifying the willfully ignorant.
You are not being patriotic or raising the national discourse by being rhetorical or fact less. You are not advancing America or her founding ideals by lofting about careless hyperbolic nonsense. I can not and will not respect those who continue to be divisive needlessly.
Again, I ask you to prove your statements.
It's just too bad we outnumber her in this town.
ReplyDeleteDO YOU? Or are you just louder than others? I am not a sheep. I will listen to the truth and I can make up my own mind, just like many others. Only time will tell.
I guess my question is this: Why would we need gov't sponsored health clinics in our schools with "reproductive services"? Regardless who runs them. We can debate who will run them for a long time, but at least Byte admits they plan on putting them in the schools. Sheesh! some people you gotta pin with a full Nelson. :)
ReplyDeleteByte didnt admit any thing like that. Ive still not seen any proof that there is any such intention.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it, that when people dont agree, people accuse each other of not thinking. It seems like just a general attitude of disrespect for everyone.
Thats where we are politically.
Some wiseacre = or wise man - once said, if you dont understand your opponent's point of view, you really don't understand your own.
see 9:30 post & cp w/ 5:43 post. google H.R. 3200 page 992+. It's all there jj. Just not reported by main media outlets. Keep in mind, P.P. is not formally named, BUT, read language of who or what kind of entity would be "allowed" to run it. Couple w/ Prez. O's statements to P.P. in person at one of their functions... Again, jj, I say follow the money. follow the money. Let me ask the question: Who or why would we need these "clinics" in a Public School that's supposed to be teaching kids to read & write? idk, I just fed up with all of it... (even though I've posted anonymous, at no time have I been disrespectful on here. But, because facts are hard to counter, sometimes people who disagree seem to take it personal for some reason)
ReplyDeleteOk, read page 995.
ReplyDeleteThese would only be in schools that were approved for a grant to pay for them.
They must be in an area underserved by medical care,
areas where there are a lot of chldren who do not have access to care.
High number of children who are uninsured.
They must meet all three of those, and apply for a grant, in order to have a clinic in the school.
But, that isnt much different than the school nurse thing.
My wife is a school nurse at South Haven. She is an RN. She provides lots of medical care and decides whether a kid should stay in school or be sent home.\ etc.
I dont see how you could link Planned Parenthood to this. It is for medical care, for people who are sick.
Dang that obama, trying to help poor children. :) :)
So it's okay because it will be in the ghetto?
ReplyDelete"dont see how you could link Planned Parenthood to this"...let me help you, jj. you're an honest man. google "negro project" and you will see P.P.'s goals at inception. I know, I know, Ms. Sanger is gone, but, where are MOST of their "clinics"? You guessed it. Unfortunately, we are dealing with a populus who by & large knows nothing of this....jj, I maybe could accept your argument if it wasn't for the fact that these "clinics" (in Public Schools) will be accountable only to...you guessed it...Gov. Sebellius. We all know her history concerning abortion 1st hand here in KS. And also Pres. O's previous statements of alliegiance to P.P. directly. I have to look at a person's track record as well as what they say. You believe what you want. Facts are facts. Oh well, at least we can have a civil debate and you don't take it personal.
ReplyDeleteI am amazed at how people like JJ can just take people at their word and not look at their past deeds or statements.
ReplyDeleteLike the whole healthcare thing. Obama said repeatedly in the past that he is for the one payer system, yet now he says it's not imprtant at the moment. AND THEY BELIEVE HIM!
You have to look at what a person has said and done in the past and not take them at their word when it contradicts earlier statements.
@ 5:35
ReplyDeleteIt would be amusing if not so infinitely pathetic.
SG
ReplyDeleteIts not that im believing what anyone has said.
What is see is this. Our president sees a serious problem wit health care and is trying to do something about it.
All i see republicans doing is attacking anything he says, and even if he says "ok ill give you that point" republicans attack that as well.
The only other thing i see republicans doing is defending insurance companies.
Sooooooooooooooooooooo
Who is actually trying to solve a problem here?
Im all for hearing a republican counter-proposal, but ... im just hearing how its evil for the status quo to be shaken - which is just the rich getting richer and that often at the expense of the poor.
Im only believing what im seeing.
In this case, at least Obama is trying to do something, but whatever he does will be attacked as evil by the other side. and if he compromises, that is evil too.
Politics as usual, yawn. time for a nap.
Has the Republicans come up with a counter proposal? If anyone knows, lead me to the site, I don't have time to surf the net very much trying to dig stuff up.
ReplyDeleteWhen Obama said he would consider dropping the most socialist part of the bill, who was it that got upset then? The Dmeocrats. It's scary that the most liberal, most socialist President in the history of this country is not Liberal or Socialist ENOUGH for Nancy Pelosi and her goons.
ReplyDeleteI agree, I would like to see a counter proposal. I have heard they are out there, but I haven't taken the time to search yet. If it does exist, I'm sure the mainstream media will not say a word about it.
Everyone agrees that something needs to be done, but socialism is not the answer.
i pretty much agree with that SG .
ReplyDeleteI don't think socialist is the way either, but something needs to be done. Wonder if congress has been mulling Mccains proposal during his campaign of giving americans, what was that number, $2 or 3 thousand tax credit? I can't remember the exact figure.
ReplyDeleteThe Republicans offered up a plan back in April or May of this year and it was completely ignored by the Democratic majority in favor of their socialist bill they are still trying to push. Back then they had no idea that the American people would be so put off by stepping closer to socialism. After all, they voted for change, didn't they?
ReplyDeleteTouche, SG. Only they had a different "change" in mind than the regular folks did. Now, I think a lot of the masses are re-thinking there blind vote for "change". Lets hope the "O" machine doesn't have us up a famous creek before more people figure it out.
ReplyDeleteSocialism isn't the answer to health care, then what is the answer? Tax credits? Would that not be much far off from a socialist theory? Costing us just as many billions? The health insurance industry sure aren't gonna drop their premiums so everyone can afford it. Even the cheapy plans aren't so cheap and then they don't cover much. Great if one stays healthy, not so great if one gets really sick. So what are your thoughts? Especially SG,since I know you are totally against public plan. I would like to know what you would do to change healthcare. If you don't mind me asking! :)
ReplyDeleteI feel your pain. I mean I happen to be one of the fortunate ones who have health ins. BUT, it's really just in case I get run over by a bus or something(pun intended) but, seriously, deductibles can kill you. no dental, no vision and cost me $$$ per month to maintain. That being said, I just know in my heart that letting Uncle Sam run it would be a fiasco on exponential scale. Look at S.S., Medicare, V.A., etc. They can't even balance a budget. And they want to manage my healthcare? I don't think so. Last point: I feel for people that can't get to a Dr..... Really. I was told PERSONALLY by a local clinic (who shall remain nameless) that they WOULD NOT see me unless I had ins. or prepaid IN FULL. I asked a question: "Well ma'am uhhh, what's a person to do then?" This was her answer: "Well, ahh, sometimes people go to the emergency room." Now, if I don't have $100.00 to get in the clinic, how am I going to afford the $800.00 the emergency room is going to charge? So, I hear both sides. People gotta have help. But, letting Uncle Sam run it is kind of jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Particularly when you got the kind of folk at the helm that we have now. We'll all be taking orders from Uncle Sam. HELP!!!!!
ReplyDeleteWell this is way on the back burner by now - but the answer still lies in competition!
ReplyDeleteMaybe its a community clinic run by dotors or private investors or the reinvention of for profit satellite clinics or even traveling clinics.
But, as long as the Insurance companies can call the shots on where you can go and how much they will pay - or the Government can mandate the things they can - competition isn't likely to happen in the fashion needed to lower cost and provide an abundance of services!
I just heard recently that BCBS is not going to pay the same for a PA as for a Doctor. The balance will come out of your deductable and must be paid out of pocket or the facility must bill less.
How do you think its going to get better even with Gov. Healthcare when there is a severe shortage of Doctors and Nurses with a greater number of retirees just around the corner?
The answer is in increasing capacity and allowing them to be competitive!
CC,
ReplyDeleteSorry, I didn't see your post until now. I think the way to change the healthcare system is to allow competition between states. Major monopolies exist right now that allow the insurance companies to charge whatever they like. If government is to get involved in healthcare, it should be to change the laws on the way the insurance companies operate, not to run them out of business.